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Old December 10th, 2012, 10:01 AM   #111

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rongo View Post
Found an interesting book about life in Napoleonic France. Here's an excerpt:



Much more interesting material in the source document.
I'll have to get my hands on this one.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 02:30 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rongo
Found an interesting book about life in Napoleonic France. Here's an excerpt:

Much more interesting material in the source document.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacific_Victory View Post
I'll have to get my hands on this one.
Yup, because we have yet to see any relevant passage from this ostensibly interesting review.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 10:51 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by jeroenrottgering View Post
Yes, equality for the law,
Napoleon did give equality to everyone, you are right.

Except he didn't give equality to women. He once said that "women should stick to knitting."

Quote:
equality in jobs (everyone could get a high office job),
Again, except if you were a woman and, most likely, poor.

Quote:
equality in society (jew, catholic, protestant it didn't matter).
Except if you were a woman (stick to knitting, ladies).

Quote:
better education,
Again, except if you were a woman or if you were poor.

Old Boney did establish lycees - selective secondary schools - designed to train the future leaders and administrators of France. However, a third of the places were reserved for the sons of officers and civil servants.

Quote:
a national bank
His introduction of a national bank in France in 1800 was hardly innovative. The Bank of England - of which most modern central banks are based - was founded in 1694 and the Bank of Sweden was founded in 1668.

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metric system
I can't see how the introduction of the metric system improved eveybody's lives. If you're poor and destitute I hardly think the introduction of a poxy measuring system is going to improve matters for you.

Quote:
Napoleon said: "My true glory is not to have won 40 battles...Waterloo will erase the memory of so many victories. ... But...what will live forever, is my Civil Code.
Napoleon wasn't very glorious when he deserted his army twice - in Egypt in 1799 and in Russia in 1812.

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Originally Posted by Ashiusx View Post
The average person usually refers to the masses. So that's what I ment.
Napoleon hated the masses. He once described them as "la vile populace."

Last edited by Brunel; December 12th, 2012 at 11:04 AM.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 02:42 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Brunel View Post
Napoleon did give equality to everyone, you are right.

Except he didn't give equality to women. He once said that "women should stick to knitting."



Again, except if you were a woman and, most likely, poor.



Except if you were a woman (stick to knitting, ladies).



Again, except if you were a woman or if you were poor.
Was he really different then the attitude most men had towards woman at that time? You must understand that pretty much until the World Wars most woman were still expected to stay in the kitchen. He did little more then sticking with the time he lived in. And remember he boosted a lot of very manly aspects such as military duty, discipline, patriotism etc etc, things woman were not as into as man at that time at least, and most likely stll. But I will agree if we would compare it to this time then his view towards woman is rather insulting. It's all about time periods though.

Where do you get the poor thing from?

Lefebvre: Son of a Miller
Suchet: Son of a Silk-manufacturer
Mortier: Son of a Farmer
Oudinot: Son of a Brewer
Bessieres: Son of a Barber
Massena: Son of a Tanner
Murat: Son of a Inn-keeper
Lannes: Son of a Farmer
Ney: Son of a Barrel-Cooper

All these were Marshals of France, the highest rank anyone could achieve after Napoleon. And look at their humble backgrounds, don't tell me those things I mentioned were just for the rich, cause they clearly weren't.


Quote:
Old Boney did establish lycees - selective secondary schools - designed to train the future leaders and administrators of France. However, a third of the places were reserved for the sons of officers and civil servants.
In the end he did introduce them, and still a majority was of no officer or civil servant background. It was much better arranged then it the rest of Europe.

Quote:
His introduction of a national bank in France in 1800 was hardly innovative. The Bank of England - of which most modern central banks are based - was founded in 1694 and the Bank of Sweden was founded in 1668.
It did help the people though, doesn't matter if it was later. Royalist France didn't do it, revolutionary France didn't do it, Napoleon did however.

Quote:
I can't see how the introduction of the metric system improved eveybody's lives. If you're poor and destitute I hardly think the introduction of a poxy measuring system is going to improve matters for you.
How about creating a better infrastructure because of this and so create more jobs? That must have bettered the lives of many Europeans.

Quote:
Napoleon wasn't very glorious when he deserted his army twice - in Egypt in 1799 and in Russia in 1812.
First of all Egypt, yes he did. But what could he do? Stay and die or get captured by the British. In France he had a future, for his man it wouldn't have mattered if he had stayed or left. The results would have been the same.

Russia is a far different matter. The moment the French army had crossed the Berezina it was save and could return into peaceful lands without much opposition. He left it in capable hands of his Marshals, and returned as soon as he could when he had dealt with the coup that was attempted in Paris.

It was simple logic, and had nothing to do with cowardliness or disloyalty.

Quote:
Napoleon hated the masses. He once described them as "la vile populace."
He loved France and he loved it's people, but yes he hated the masses. You know why? Simple because of the experience he had with them. He saw how the masses humiliated the French king Louis XVI and forced him to wear the red liberty cap. He saw the Tuileries get stormed and the Swiss Guard butchered. He faced 20,000 royalist at the 13 vendémiaire and managed to beat them. He knew what the masses could create and what they could destroy. That's why he was so urgent to halt the revolution, finish it and bring France and it's masses into peaceful waters again.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 02:49 PM   #115

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Not during his reign,[in france yes,outside he mostly sucked them dry]but in the long run the legacy of the code did.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 03:12 PM   #116
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Not during his reign,[in france yes,outside he mostly sucked them dry]but in the long run the legacy of the code did.
Sucked them dry? He gave the same advantages to any occupied French territory or vassal. Also the conscription was just as high in France as in the rest of Europe, even lower if I am not mistaken. The only regions that suffered were Spain and the coastal regions who's economies was mainly focused on trade. But I know for a change for my country (the Netherlands) who mainly relied on trade, it didn't came as far as starvation. Much of this could also have been resolved if Britain had been more open to negotiations, but thats for an other time and who knows even a different thread.

It's just so unfair to say that only France profited between 1789-1814. Their are even claims that the stopping of the trade with England, boosted in fact the Belgian industry and made it the dominant one on the continent in the post-Napoleonic period. Also the Polish even received their own nation, and many of the German states and most states in the rest of Europe were finally relieved from the pre-revolutionary oppressive ways of government and came in touch with a much more liberal one.

And yes many of these territories were ruled by the closest to Napoleon. But even they were mostly a blessing for the countries they ruled. For example look how popular Louis Napoleon was in Holland, and the way Joseph ruled over Naples. The only real unsuccessful brother was Jerome, who treated Westphalia as a milking cow. But Napoleon was not exactly by that behavior.
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