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Old December 7th, 2012, 04:26 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by At Each Kilometer View Post
A person, who is responsible for the deaths of millions of people and who himself said:
Quote: 1. "I shall bury the world beneath my ruin"
2. "A man like me cares little about losing the lives of a million men."
3."A rotten old whore whom I shall treat as I please" (in reference to Europe)

obviously had serious mental problems, even if he was briliant military genius.

source: The House of Ice: Napoleon and Hitler - A Comparison and Contrast
You also have to mention the context in which those words were said. Those first two quotes were said out of anger against the Austrian ambassador Metternich. Metternich was not willing to give in, while Napoleon had to give up all his gains. The second one he said to prove a point that he as a Monarch had to stay strong, cause he couldn't afford to lose. When a standard European monarch lost he could sign a peace and go back to his throne, when Napoleon lost he could very well lose his throne. But I am fairly sure he would not care if a million man died for him.

The third one he meant with that he had to save the sick conservative Europe and liberalize it. He loved to reform stuff and recreate.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 04:31 AM   #32
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Hello Rongo. His sources are at the end of the page.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 04:38 AM   #33

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Hello Rongo. His sources are at the end of the page.
Hi. Yes, I see that. But those are sources for his whole article. He doesn't tell us where these particular quotes come from. Do they come from any of those three sources? We don't know. And none of those sources are primary sources either.

The only way we can know the veracity, and context, of a quote is if we know the primary source. There are hundreds of inaccurate quotes floating all over the internet. And I'm sure we've all said things that when taken out of context would sound just horrible.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 08:55 AM   #34

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Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
You can't be serious.
very much so
Quote:
I have already shown extensive evidence on the absolute unreliability of your actually irrelevant source (irrelevant at least for the OP)

Have you actually any source on the effects of perpetual warfare and the Continental Blockade even over the French themselves?
you have made your argument that the source i provided is not to be trusted yet you as of yet have not provided anything to say she is wrong in what she says. if you claim that she is wrong then the opposite of what she says must be the truth so by all means provide the material to show this.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 09:36 AM   #35
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To be honest, I think the mere fact that Napoleon was seeking to expand his 'empire' speaks for itself of what his intentions were. This regardless of any 'facts' about how one things may of changed here or there or anywhere else..
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Old December 7th, 2012, 12:26 PM   #36

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To be honest, I think the mere fact that Napoleon was seeking to expand his 'empire' speaks for itself of what his intentions were. This regardless of any 'facts' about how one things may of changed here or there or anywhere else..
Do you believe that expansion of an Empire is incompatible with improving the lives of the common man within that Empire?
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Old December 7th, 2012, 12:36 PM   #37
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Do you believe that expansion of an Empire is incompatible with improving the lives of the common man within that Empire?
Not necessarily.

In the specific case of Monsieur Buonaparte, it was most certainly incompatible.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 12:40 PM   #38

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Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
Not necessarily.

In the specific case of Monsieur Buonaparte, it was most certainly incompatible.
I'm looking forward to seeing your evidence to support that contention.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 12:41 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by irishcrusader95 View Post
very much so

you have made your argument that the source i provided is not to be trusted yet you as of yet have not provided anything to say she is wrong in what she says. if you claim that she is wrong then the opposite of what she says must be the truth so by all means provide the material to show this.
Nope, you are not serious at all.

Even if she wouldn't have been the blind enthusiastic Buonapartist fan that she most objectively was as properly documented above, her incidental statement as a mere tourist would still be entirely irrelevant for the OP.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 12:44 PM   #40

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Not necessarily.

In the specific case of Monsieur Buonaparte, it was most certainly incompatible.
Well as in all wars and most Empires, some peoples lives were improved while some were made worse.

Because the OP refers to the common man, we can forget about the lives of the soldiers for a while and speak specifically about the civilians. War is never good for the soldiers who fight it, but how did it affect the citizens not in uniform?

Why specifically do you believe life was worse under Napoleon than it was under the previous rulers? The Continental System?

Here is what Wiki has to say about the effects of Napoleon's Continental System (NCS)

From Wikipedia:

"The System had a significant effect on British trade, with British exports falling between 25% to 55% compared to pre-1806 levels.

France, Belgium, and Switzerland benefited the most - particularly the industrialized north and east of France, and south of Belgium, which saw significantly increased profits due to the lack of competition from British goods (particularly textiles, which were produced at a much cheaper cost in Britain).

Southern France, especially the port cities of Marseille, Bordeaux and La Rochelle, suffered from the reduction in trade. Moreover, the prices of staple foods rose for most of continental Europe.

The embargo encouraged British merchants to seek out new markets aggressively and to engage in smuggling with continental Europe. Napoleon's exclusively land-based customs enforcers could not stop British smugglers, especially as these operated with the connivance of Napoleon's chosen rulers of Spain, Westphalia and other German states.

Britain, by Orders in Council (1807), prohibited its trade partners from trading with France. The British were able to counter the plan by threatening to sink any ship that did not come to a British port or chose to comply with France. This double threat created a difficult time for neutral nations like the United States of America. In response to this prohibition, compounded by the Chesapeake Incident, the U.S. Congress passed the Embargo Act of 1807 and eventually Macon's Bill No. 2. This embargo contributed to the general ill will between the two countries (Britain and the U.S.), and together with the issue of the impressment of foreign seamen, eventually led to armed conflict between the U.S. and the UK in the War of 1812.

The embargo also had an effect on France itself. Ship building, and its trades such as rope-making declined, as did many other industries that relied on overseas markets, e.g. the linen industries. With few exports and a loss of profits, many industries were closed down.

Portugal openly refused to join the Continental System. In 1793, after the French declaration of war against the United Kingdom, Portugal signed with the UK a treaty of mutual help.[4] After the Treaty of Tilsit of July 1807, Napoleon attempted to capture the Portuguese Fleet and the House of Braganza, and to occupy the Portuguese ports. He failed. King John VI of Portugal took his fleet and transferred the Portuguese Court to Brazil with a Royal Navy escort. The Portuguese population rose in revolt against the French invaders, the British Army under Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington intervened, and the Peninsular War began in 1808. Napoleon also forced the Spanish royal family to resign their throne in favor of Napoleon's brother, Joseph.

Sweden, Britain's ally in the Third Coalition, refused to comply with French demands and was invaded by Russia in February 1808.

Also, Russia chafed under the embargo, and in 1812 reopened trade with the UK. Russia's withdrawal from the system was the main incentive for Napoleon to force a decision to invade, which was the turning point of the war.
"
[edit]
References
^ Jean Tulard, Napoléon, Hachette, 2008, p.207
^ Jean Tulard, Napoléon, Hachette, 2008, p.207
^ Holberg, Tom The Acts, Orders in Council, &c. of Great Britain (on Trade), 1793 - 1812
^ Supplemeto á Collecção dos tratados, convenções, contratos e actos pg 19-25
Cavindish, Richard. "The Treaty of Tilsit." History Today 57.7 (2007): 62-63. World History Collection. Web. 14 Nov. 2012.
Wild, Antony. Coffee: A Dark History. New York: W.W. Norton, 2005. 144-47. Print.
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