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Old December 12th, 2012, 03:47 PM   #1
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Dutch history


Since as a Dutchman I like my own history as well, just as I like French history and other nations history. Sometimes I think this forum is quite dominated by threads of English, French, German, Spanish and American history and that is great and also I am partly responsible for that, but I kind of wanted to starte a thread about Dutch history which can be very wide. It can arrange from the Burgundian period until the bombardment of Rotterdam. You are free to past anything you want. Ask question about Dutch history, facts you want to know, post interesting stories of achievements or throw in something of your own country and see what the Dutch had to do with that.

I hope I don't sound to nationalistic, but well I can't help my self, I am Dutch .

So please shoot!
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Old December 12th, 2012, 04:00 PM   #2

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The Dutch had some of the finest naval commanders of the 17th century in De wit, Tromp and De Ruyter. It was unfortunate they came up against one of the finest commanders in Naval history during the first Anglo-Dutch war, in Robert Blake.

That being said, I think Tromp had an important part in the 80 years war did he not?
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Old December 12th, 2012, 04:16 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangekyou View Post
The Dutch had some of the finest naval commanders of the 17th century in De wit, Tromp and De Ruyter. It was unfortunate they came up against one of the finest commanders in Naval history during the first Anglo-Dutch war, in Robert Blake.

That being said, I think Tromp had an important part in the 80 years war did he not?
Well actually our finest naval commander de Ruyter only faced Blake ones in the First Anglo-Dutch war and that engagement he won. The rest of the battles he served under de With and Tromp and was in fact the only successful Admiral during this war which ended quite badly for the Dutch Republic. Tromp had his glory days against Spain, as did de With. And they were quite successful against England as well, but Blake proved to be worthy adversary. Our real glory on the naval battlefield was during the countless naval victories against Spain during our struggle of independence, and the Second and Third Anglo Dutch wars. These were truly the glory days of the Dutch Navy and the Dutch nation as a whole.

I hope I am not to bold by saying this but I think the Dutch and English produced the creme de la creme of naval commanders. Not to forget Japan and the US of course. But especially in the old days, pre-20th century sort of speaking.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 04:34 PM   #4

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I can't say I'm particularly well-informed on Dutch history except where it's tied in with my study or research in the past (that is, notably 17th century Dutch painting and 18th century Dutch cultural/political history). It's true that we don't often see nor hear Dutch history being discussed much, either on this forum or anywhere outside the Netherlands, which is well a pity.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 05:02 PM   #5

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Well actually our finest naval commander de Ruyter only faced Blake ones in the First Anglo-Dutch war and that engagement he won.
I think you are thinking of the battle of Plymouth, where De Ruyter was escorting a convoy, and was able to defeat George Ayscue, who was a friend of De Ruyter before the war, iirc.

I dont recall Blake and De Ruyter meeting in battle. I only recall England losing two battles during the first Anglo-Dutch war. The battles of Dungeness and the battle of Leghorn. Both were at similar times. Blake lost the former, when Maarten Tromp defeated him with twice as many ships. The other one was Appleby and I forget the Dutch commanders name.

Blake demanded the navy get reformes after this, and he later avenged that defeat at the battle of Scheveningen where Tromp was killed.

I only recall De Ruyter (for the most part until Tromp was killed) serving as a division commander.




Quote:
The rest of the battles he served under de With and Tromp and was in fact the only successful Admiral during this war which ended quite badly for the Dutch Republic
He did indeed.
Quote:

. Tromp had his glory days against Spain, as did de With. And they were quite successful against England as well, but Blake proved to be worthy adversary.
Blake defeated both of these Admirals, iirc, aswell as the defeat he suffered at Dungeness.

Quote:
Our real glory on the naval battlefield was during the countless naval victories against Spain during our struggle of independence, and the Second and Third Anglo Dutch wars. These were truly the glory days of the Dutch Navy and the Dutch nation as a whole.
Totally agree here.

I would say the third anglo-dutch was where De Ruyter really made a name for himself.


Quote:
I hope I am not to bold by saying this but I think the Dutch and English produced the creme de la creme of naval commanders. Not to forget Japan and the US of course. But especially in the old days, pre-20th century sort of speaking.
It isn't bold. The Dutch had a fabulous navy in the fifteenth and siteenth centuries, and England kept pace in the latter century, until it became dominant in the mid eighteenth and the nineteenth.


The Dutch had some pretty good army commanders too, in William of Orange (senior and junior) and Maurice of Nassau. I admire all these men. not to mention the Dutch engineer who later served with Duke of Marlborough and one of the best alongside Vauban, Menno Van Coehoorn.

Last edited by Mangekyou; December 12th, 2012 at 05:13 PM.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 05:59 PM   #6

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Jeroen I always been interested in the Dutch. I've got a million questions for you.

What attracted Dutch settlers to South Africa and was it a large or small migration? Also, what was their status in the Dutch government? Were the Dutch colonists in South Africa considered to be part of the Netherlands? I only know that there were settlers from the the Netherlands/Belgium and then the British conquered them - Wikipedia and history books haven't answered the question of how Transvaal and the Orange State became independent from the Netherlands in the first place. How did these settlers become separate from the Dutch state? Lastly, can you understand Afrikaans if spoken? Is it different like American/British English or Canadian/European French or is it truly another language?

Regarding Indonesia, did any Dutch people go live there and shape the ethnic makeup of today's Indonesia? I ask because I know how important Indonesia was to the Dutch in the 1800's and early 1900's but I never see that the people there speak Dutch. On the other hand I notice that places in Africa and Asia etc where the British, French, Portuguese etc ruled continue to speak these languages even with minimal European settlement.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 06:23 PM   #7
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As I’m living in Australia, I’m particularly interested in Dutch long distance voyages and geographical discoveries by Dutch navigators.
One of the first European navigator who explored waters around Australia was Abel Tasman (Tasmania was named after this great navigator).
Abel_Tasman Abel_Tasman


Captain Willem Janszoon is credited to be the first European who landed on Australia shore in early 17 century.
Duyfken Duyfken


Willem de Vlaming made his landing at the site of today Perth in late 17 century.
Willem_de_Vlamingh Willem_de_Vlamingh

Dutch ships visited Australian shores aprox. 170 years before Captain Cook famous discovery.
Many Dutch shipwrecks are strewn along wester shores of Australia.
http://www.lifeonperth.com/dutchshipwrecks.htm


Late friend of mine was involved in discovery of Dutch ship “Batavia”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batavia_(ship)
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Old December 12th, 2012, 06:32 PM   #8
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It was unfortunate they came up against one of the finest commanders in Naval history during the first Anglo-Dutch warClick the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 06:48 PM   #9

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward View Post

Dutch ships visited Australian shores aprox. 170 years before Captain Cook famous discovery.
Many Dutch shipwrecks are strewn along wester shores of Australia.
http://www.lifeonperth.com/dutchshipwrecks.htm
Another equally famous Englishmen who went there before Cook, was William Dampier, as you probably know already
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Old December 12th, 2012, 06:48 PM   #10

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lynch View Post
...
Regarding Indonesia, did any Dutch people go live there and shape the ethnic makeup of today's Indonesia? I ask because I know how important Indonesia was to the Dutch in the 1800's and early 1900's but I never see that the people there speak Dutch. On the other hand I notice that places in Africa and Asia etc where the British, French, Portuguese etc ruled continue to speak these languages even with minimal European settlement.
Yes, people who were born during Dutch colonization more likely able to speak Dutch language. Back then, Dutch is official language. In today Indonesian language you can found a lot of loanword from Dutch. example: Captain=Kapten(Kapitein), Switch=Kenop(Knopje), Weak=Soak(Zwak), Slipper=Pantofel(Pantoffel), Lecturer=Dosen(Docent) and so on...

And not only language, but also clothing, architecture, food, law and government etc..
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