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Old January 8th, 2013, 07:21 AM   #51

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If the areas the Red Army annexed in 1939 were "Poland", then India is "Britain", and Algeria "France".

Click the image to open in full size.

Poland aggression led to these non-Polish areas being taken by Poland after the Polish-Soviet war.

The "Soviet invasion of Poland", i.e. the reunification of Ukrainian and Byelorussian land, was a great humanitarian feat, which hugely improved the living standards, healthcare, and education of the people living under Polish quasi-colonial rule.
There was Polish minority which counted millions of people, there was Belorusian or Ukrainian majority, but I dont see any Russians on this map.
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Old January 8th, 2013, 07:51 AM   #52

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Exactly. It's rather tedious.
For some reason Mussolini's version always pops into my head when i see Putin's PR machine in action.
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Old January 8th, 2013, 12:24 PM   #53

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Dear Germany,

from Russia with love.

I think more people have ill thoughts towards US and Israel, more than the Russians and Germans.
So True!
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Old January 8th, 2013, 10:48 PM   #54

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Luckily for Russians, but not for understanding Polish historiography, they were always large enough to absorb the blows from any would be conquers. Poland on the other hand, to paraphrase a missive usually directed at my country, "so far away from heaven and so close to Germany or Russia." But actually, for Poland it was worse, much worse. They were snuffed out as a country multiple times over the centuries. In this light, Mexico got of quite lightly. I think if you could look at it from her point of view, the context becomes much more clearer and the reason for distrust being more amplified.
Polish neighbours have many reasons to not trust Poles too. Both Germans and Russians to the same extent suffered from their aggression. Look: modern Poland has even more than its historical ethnic territories. But even now, at this thread they apply for another's territories. It is impossible to prove them, all lands to the east of Curzon Line are not Poland. Yes Poland was the great state. During its blossoming its territory was about 1,1 million square kilometers. But, for whose account it created its greatness? Due to its neighbours of course, due to Russians, Checs, Slovaks and including Germans. Now Poland has returned to its ethnic borders and Poles whine as their neighbours were able to get rid of their domination. Ask yourself the question: why the Polish neighbours should endow themselves to satisfy the Polish ambitions? It is possible to say a lot about the reasons of the partitions of Poland by its neighbours. There are many reasons. One of the main reasons is neighbours aspired to get rid from excessively arrogant and Importunate Poland. The history does not teach Poles. Look: at 1918 they have found independence and the first thing they have started was the war in the east for a conquering Ukrainian and Belorussian lands. Notice they did not started to do economic and political reforms. They have started the war for expansion to own neighbours territory!
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Old January 8th, 2013, 10:50 PM   #55

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Perhaps if the Germans on this forum posted as "Adolph" and claimed Hitler was Father Christmas you might possibly change your mind.

I don't recall any German poster denying that Nazis were guilty of mass murder. The way you routinely deny mass murders committed by the Soviets.

Or abusing other posters for mentioning genocidal crimes of the Third Reich. The way you behave whenever Soviet genocidal crimes are mentioned.

Or claim shooting 0ver 21,000 POWs in the back of the skull was perfectly understandable and they'd do it personally. The way you did about the Katyń Massacre.

If Hitler headed favourite historical characters list in Germany the way Stalin does in the Russian Federation today, you might find some reason for concern. Just perhaps.
What are you talking about?
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Old January 8th, 2013, 11:47 PM   #56

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There was Polish minority which counted millions of people, there was Belorusian or Ukrainian majority, but I dont see any Russians on this map.
Is there a big difference between Russians, Ukrainians and Byelorussians?
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Old January 9th, 2013, 01:32 AM   #57

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Definitely more than once a year.



The older generation still has many people who consider Germans inherently barbaric and uncivilized. My grandmother's family lived during German occupation in Ukraine and recounted that the German troops who went into their village did nothing but rob and rape people and get drunk. Soviet propaganda during the war years also painted Germans as brutish barbarians, something that stopped after the creation of the DDR and was replaced by the idea that the Nazis, not the German people themselves, were responsible for the war. However, the former idea still persists in many old people's minds.
Let me respectfully disagree. I have heard different stories from people who lived under German occupation. One woman told me that all German soldiers living in her house were polite and helpful. Once a colonel stayed there, and the lady's son was sick. This colonel went out of his way to find a medication for this kid.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 01:35 AM   #58

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Let me respectfully disagree. I have heard different stories from people who lived under German occupation. One woman told me that all German soldiers living in her house were polite and helpful. Once a colonel stayed there, and the lady's son was sick. This colonel went out of his way to find a medication for this kid.
I don't know how much of the 18 million german soldiers of WWII served in the east. But it was probably the majority. So I am sure that there are thousands of people who can support the one or the other story.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 01:51 AM   #59

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But as a Russian who lived in the Soviet Union I may say that there was a political tendency to blame all economic underdevelopment of the Soviet Union on the war. Hence, on the Germans. Victims of repressions and purges were added to those who perished in WWII. So we were brought up intensely disliking the Germans.

I think things changed when Germany was one of the first countries who tried to establish economic ties with the Soviet Union during the perestroika. Once people saw each other, the paranoia and animosity disappeared.

My husband lived in Germany for several years and speaks decent German. He never had a single bad word to say about former West Germany (he lived in that part of the country). I can not say much about former East Germany, we stayed there for one day, in Dresden (and after that visit my opinion of Churchill has changed for the worse). But I had been in West Germany many times, have friends that helped me there, and really like this country. To a degree that I always recommend people from the US who have never been to Europe to start with Germany.

I would say that I see much more animosity towards the USA. Americans are disliked in Russia, it is well-known. I think they are more disliked now than during the Soviet times, and I can not fully understand why. Partially, it is the cold war, but I also feel that it is ... jealousy. For some reason, in Russia the USA is still viewed as exceptionally rich, even after the crisis.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 01:54 AM   #60

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But as a Russian who lived in the Soviet Union I may say that there was a political tendency to blame all economic underdevelopment of the Soviet Union on the war. Hence, on the Germans. Victims of repressions and purges were added to those who perished in WWII. So we were brought up intensely disliking the Germans.

......
there were probably other reasons as well, but the loss of 20-30 million people was for sure a great impact on soviet economy. of course the politics of stalin during the war was this, too. But of course he reacted to the German attack. So both impacts are result of the german invasion.
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