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Old January 9th, 2013, 03:23 PM   #1

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Why didn't Norman England and France become a united kingdom?


Why did England not become a province of the kingdom of France following the Norman invasion? Were the Normans not (at least in theory) under the control of the French king? French was spoken in the Courts on England during this time and speaking French and Latin was a symbol of high status. It would seem natural that this region would evolve into a larger French-speaking political and economic entity on both sides of the English channel.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 03:29 PM   #2

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I've heard or read that the the UK belongs to the Channel Islands, and not the other way around. Those islands were part of Normandy when William-the-Conqueror conquered England in 1066. France eventually conquered Normandy, but never got hold of the Channel Islands, LOL.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 03:34 PM   #3

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If there was an answer this question there would not have been around 800 years of almost continual warfare between France and England.

The Normans did not consider themselves French - they were actually Norse - hence the name Norman, and any allegience to the French king by the dukes of Normandy was largely theoretical. Once they had power in England they were even less likely to see themselves as vassals of the king of France.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 03:42 PM   #4

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgarion View Post
If there was an answer this question there would not have been around 800 years of almost continual warfare between France and England.

Once they had power in England they were even less likely to see themselves as vassals of the king of France.

Herin lies the problem. A duke normaly owes alliegence to a king. But when the duke is also a king , does he owe alliegence to a different king.

Answer, War.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 03:47 PM   #5

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William pursued his claim to the English throne and won being named king legitimately by the high council, that he was a French Duke has nothing to do with it. Prince Albert married Victoria, this didn't make the British Empire part of Germany because he was subject to the Kaiser.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 03:47 PM   #6

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Herin lies the problem. A duke normaly owes alliegence to a king. But when the duke is also a king , does he owe alliegence to a different king.

Answer, War.
Answer 100 Years War, Edward III refused to pay homage to the French king for his territories in France.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 03:50 PM   #7

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Is it true though, that for his invasion force William recruited men from all over the country?

If so how does this fit in with the Norman-French situation? Is it just a case of men seeking their fortune, land etc, or was there more to it?
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Old January 9th, 2013, 03:59 PM   #8

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Is it true though, that for his invasion force William recruited men from all over the country?

If so how does this fit in with the Norman-French situation? Is it just a case of men seeking their fortune, land etc, or was there more to it?

There were certainly Breton mercanries at the battle of Hastings, but mercanries were nothing new in European warfare.

Last edited by funakison; January 9th, 2013 at 04:40 PM.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 04:10 PM   #9

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There were certainly Breton mercanries at the battke of Hastings, but mercanries were nothing new in European warfare.
Yes I know about mercenaries, I was thinking though that he also drew support, i.e. knights and nobles from pretty much all over the country, especially after getting the Pope's blessing.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 11:21 PM   #10

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Answer 100 Years War, Edward III refused to pay homage to the French king for his territories in France.
I thought that was because Edward III claimed the French throne for himself, through his mother when her brother the King of France died. Salic law in France prohibited the throne from passing through a woman so they did not acknowledge Edward's claim but England did not follow Salic law so Edward believed himself to be the rightful King of France. He may have refused to pay homage to the French king for his territories in France but that's because he believed himself to be the French king, not because he was the English king, and he can't exactly pay homage to himself. I'm sure I've read that other English kings did indeed pay homage to the French king.
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