Chookie

There seems to have been a little excitement about a comment of mine in another thread, so I'm going to expand on it. I said “How often do I have to say Britain and England are not the same thing?“.


To expand: Britain is a geographical designation which is often mistaken for the United Kingdom. Britain consists of Scotland, Wales, Ireland, England, Isle of Man and the Channel Islands. The United Kingdom comprises Scotland, England and Wales and Northern Ireland.


Starting at the bottom:-


England was invaded by the Romans in 55BC (unsuccessfully) and again – successfully this time -in 43AD. The Romans left in AD410 or so, and were replaced by the Angles, Saxons and Jutes (who were invited) to defend the by now romanised natives, instead, they decided to take over. Three centuries or so later, along came the Vikings. In England these were mainly Danes – they also took over great huge chunks of England and demanded tribute (Danegeld) from the rest. Another couple of centuries later came the Norman Conquest (anyone see a pattern here?). Next we have a few centuries of attempted empire-building and interfering with other countries:-


Wales was conquered by the English in the 13th Century. Wales was incorporated into England with the Laws in Wales Acts 1535–1542, creating the legal entity known today as England and Wales.


Ireland: In 1171, King Henry II of England came to Ireland, using the 1155 Bull Laudabiliter issued to him by then Pope Adrian IV, to claim sovereignty over the island. From the late 15th century English rule was once again expanded, first through the efforts of the Earls of Kildare and Ormond then through the activities of the Tudors under Henry VIII, Mary and Elizabeth. This resulted in the complete conquest of Ireland by 1603. When the English Royal family becomes extinct and England becomes subordinate to the Stuart dynasty.


Scotland: Caledonia (like Ireland/Hibernia) is first mentioned by the Romans who invade in around AD70, after eliminatind the Druids on Anglesey and seeing off Boudicca. They supposedly win a battle (Mons Graupius AD84) in which they slaughter 10,000 Caledonii for the loss of 360 legionaries. After winning this battle they bugger off sharpish and build a bloody great wall (Hadrians). About 70 years later they try again and build another (Antonine) wall. Which they abandon after about 40 years. The last (also unsuccessful) Roman incursion is that of Septimus Severus in AD208. Then there are disagreements, wars and alliances with Berenicia (Northumbria) and Rheged (Cumbria). There are a few centuries of relative peace before the death of Alexander III, which death allows Edward Plantagenet to indulge in his favourite hobby – conquest and empire building – thus leading to the first (relativley unsuccessful) and second (totally successful) Wars of Scottish Independence.


We then have a period of English invasions of Scotland or Scottish invasions of England with no tangible result either way until 1603 when, as already said the English Royals vanish. This leads to the “Union of the Crowns” which unites the Kingdoms of Scotland and England & Wales (at this time, Wales is considered part of England). Passing on quickly we reach the War of the Three Kingdoms (to call it the English Civil War is incorrect). Then there is the Restoration, followed by the Glorious (ha) Revolution, the failure of the Darien scheme and the buying of the Scottish Parliament (the original Parcel o Roguies in a Nation) by the Southern establishment.



It is only at this point that “British” history can be said to begin as Britain as a political entity did not exist before 1st May 1707.

Comments please.

fledse

Well, I don't really know about history of Britain, but as long as I know, there are some soverignty for Scotland, Wales, and Irleand. If that is true, I think the only "little excitment" that matters is just Scottish and other people do not wanna viewed as English, which we (other people in the world) often make mistake.

I have to guess, but when English first conquered the Scotish, I am pretty sure it was very brutal in that time, but nowadays, now it is not so much brutal discriminations over Non English people in U.K.

The more fundamentally, it looks like there are less Scotish who wanna get independence from U.K. than those for the independence, considering there have not been many conflicts and chaos which are surely noteworthy in newspaper in the world. In this perspective, Scotland is different level to Tibet, whose people wanna desperately get independence from China.

gregorian

Ok. Sure. Fair enough.

It just shows there are tricks involved in naming England/United Kingdom/Great Britain in a a historical context.
The boundaries and name and who the Sovereign represents changes over time.

Richard Stanbery

For some of us Americans, our ancestors were already here before 1707, and so it is only a habbit that we referr to the mother nation as England. It is a habbit that was started by them back then, and passed on I suppose? After all, thats what it was when we left it, or so it was called commonly.

Heidi XX

Surly back in there day it did matter,what was posted above^and i can understand three different terms for that time of period. In modern times does this really matter? Most people (including myself) in this century class England as England ,English,United Kingdom,Great Britain as the one whole term and not different terms.
During the times of history,has things maybe change and all this was just past memory and does not exist in modern times any more?
I'm trying to say is that,the three different terms did exist years and years ago but is this term still here today?

I did try and write in a professinal way.

Richard Stanbery

Heidi; we all here must, and do ,realize that English is not the mother toungue of all of us on this forum.Your writing is just fine. We can understand you, and we are glad to hear what you have to say. We are glad that you are with us!

I think as you do, It really does not matter so much whether we say England or Britain in everyday speech. England was the nation that led the way to global Empire in history.

I suppose that it is like when we Americans talk about going to Munich, we might say that we are going to Germany. We usually dont say that we are going to Bavaria, or Bayern.

I guess that there really is an almost "High English" developing, where we are more propper and specific in such things as whether we are talking specifically about England of history, or Britain, or common everyday UK stuff.

Our English language is a mixture of many other languages, and is really confusing and maddening to learn. And, since we speakers of English are usually quite insane (like our language) we like to kid one another about these things from time to time. It is a play on words.

We all like each other though, generally speaking. The Brits do not get too upset when we Americans slaughter thier language, as we do daily. Niether do we get upset because they drive on the wrong side of the road. We all get along and have a good laugh at ourselves from time to time. It helps us deal with the insanity of being English speakers.

Heidi XX

English is a big part of this world,actually is the major part of this world.
I don't know much about England back in the real olden days,so it was a shock to learn that there is three different meanings to England. I do believe there were three meanings but in to world i don't know if England as three meanings?

Edgewaters

No, its not the same. Bavaria is part of Germany. Scotland is not part of England. Neither are Northern Ireland or Wales.

Fluffybunny

That's true, but it's like saying.. I dunno.. that Jersey is the part of the States. Bavaria is just so different ^^

galteeman

eh...no!
stop the lights there Chookie mate - Ireland is not part of Britain.