Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > European History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

European History European History Forum - Western and Eastern Europe including the British Isles, Scandinavia, Russia


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old March 28th, 2013, 12:05 PM   #1
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,850
What happened to the Old Prussians?


I assume that the German language of the conquerors became dominant. Is there anything left of there culture? Were they actually all killed off?
betgo is offline  
Remove Ads
Old March 28th, 2013, 12:25 PM   #2
Historian
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 8,545

Quote:
Originally Posted by betgo View Post
I assume that the German language of the conquerors became dominant. Is there anything left of there culture? Were they actually all killed off?
They pretty much disappeared due to the genocidal policies of the allies at the end of the second world war through a combination of murder, rape, and forced relocation, something we tend to prefer to keep quiet.
constantine is offline  
Old March 28th, 2013, 12:57 PM   #3
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,850

Quote:
Originally Posted by constantine View Post
They pretty much disappeared due to the genocidal policies of the allies at the end of the second world war through a combination of murder, rape, and forced relocation, something we tend to prefer to keep quiet.
No I mean the Prussians before the crusades of the Teutonic knights who spoke the Prussian language and were probably similar in language and religion to Lithuanians.

You are referring to moving Poland westward after WWII where the German speaking people in East Prussia were mostly forced to move into what is now Germany. Not sure if that was just Soviet policy. I think the other allies agreed to that.
betgo is offline  
Old March 28th, 2013, 01:41 PM   #4
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2010
From: -
Posts: 17,473

The Old Prussians survived the conquest mainly as peasants. Their social status was rather low. But nevertheless the made the majority of inhabiants for longer. During the modern era, the social status of the German peasants declines as well, which helped an assimilation process. The Old Prussians assimilated thru the centuries more and more and adopted as well the german language. Somewhere after 1700 their language passed away.
Constantine's post was not that wrong. The last Old Prussian remnants were destroyed with the expulsion.
beorna is offline  
Old March 28th, 2013, 04:22 PM   #5

Lord Lucan's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
From: Latvia
Posts: 546

Quote:
Originally Posted by beorna View Post
The last Old Prussian remnants were destroyed with the expulsion.
Was there really some left up until 1945? I always thought they disappeared sometime in 18th century.
Lord Lucan is offline  
Old March 28th, 2013, 04:34 PM   #6
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2010
From: -
Posts: 17,473

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Lucan View Post
Was there really some left up until 1945? I always thought they disappeared sometime in 18th century.
I spoke of remnants in culture and language. The Old Prussian language extincted in the 17th or 18th century. But of course did not the descendents of those people disappear.
beorna is offline  
Old March 28th, 2013, 05:21 PM   #7
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,850

Probably some aspects of old Prussian culture were left, even if the language was gone. Then those people were all kicked out and dispersed because they were considered German.
betgo is offline  
Old March 28th, 2013, 05:29 PM   #8
Historian
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 8,545

Quote:
Originally Posted by betgo View Post
No I mean the Prussians before the crusades of the Teutonic knights who spoke the Prussian language and were probably similar in language and religion to Lithuanians.

You are referring to moving Poland westward after WWII where the German speaking people in East Prussia were mostly forced to move into what is now Germany. Not sure if that was just Soviet policy. I think the other allies agreed to that.
Ah, I had my head in the wrong era. The other allies weren't quite as excited about the idea as the Soviets, but they tolerated it. Prussian militarism was blamed as the foundation of modern German militarism, especially by the Soviets, destroy the Prussians and you'd destroy German militarism; looking at Germany history since they war, they might have been right, then again, it might have been other factors at play. Sorry for derailing the thread, even if it was on accident.
constantine is offline  
Old March 28th, 2013, 09:23 PM   #9
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Jan 2013
From: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 5,835

The Monastic State of the Teutonic Order had a separate legal class designated as "Prussian", different from the other legal classes, and having a lower social position.

Historians consider that this group consisted only of those Old Prussians who had revolted against the rule of the Teutonic Order, and as punishment had lost their lands and been reduced to the status of serfs.

Those Old Prussians who had remained loyal to the Order were not included in the class of "Prussians", but were incorporated into the other legal classes with the same status as German settlers, including into the noble class. As a result, the East Prussian Junker class was partly of Old Prussian origin, descended from Old Prussian nobles who had remained loyal and therefore kept their lands and noble status.

As stated by Beorna, eventually the class of "Prussians" merged with the originally free peasant class consisting of German settlers and Old Prussians who had not been enserfed. The separate class of "Prussians" had disappeared by the 16th Century as a legal category.
michael mills is offline  
Old March 29th, 2013, 11:58 AM   #10
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,850

As for post-WWII, the Soviets wanted eastern Poland, but it had created a lot of problems rebelling against the Czars. Prussia was blamed for problems with Germany in the world wars. So displace the people from both of those areas. Except the Prussians were ethnically probably more Prussian than German.
betgo is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > European History

Tags
happened, prussians



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What if WWI had never happened? Lucius Speculative History 31 August 22nd, 2012 01:17 PM
what do you think would have happened if.... lokariototal Speculative History 3 July 21st, 2010 10:13 AM
what if 9/11 never happened mister American History 24 September 4th, 2009 08:13 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.