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Old June 8th, 2013, 01:40 PM   #31

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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
Elizabeth was crowned Queen, a solemn act, a ceremony of symbolism and meaning, where she was anointed as monarch, in the same fashion as those who had come before her, (with all the appropriate political paperwork that goes with it in Parliament as well). Philip is married to her, but he was not crowned, he was not made a king.

Simply marrying someone who is king/queen does not immediately make you the respective other. There is a process that must happen first, the act that makes them king/queen.
Oh yes this Queen did not want to share her status and her hubby was just named the Duke of Edinburgh.
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Old June 8th, 2013, 01:45 PM   #32

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Technically, Mary was the Heiress, being the eldest Protestant child of James II. William of Orange was only descended from James II's sister Mary who had married the Prince of Orange, therefore his claim to the British throne was weaker than Mary II's.

However, he would not be simply Mary's Consort and she didn't want to rule alone. Thus they became joint monarchs as William III and Mary II.

She died first. He continued to reign alone as William III to his death, when he was suceeded by Anne, Mary's younger sister.
James II was a Catholic, he had to go into exile because of this. His daughter Mary was not allowed to become a queen is she was also Catholic, that how William of Orange controlled Protestant England and other countries. I don't think Mary had much say in the matter.
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Old June 8th, 2013, 01:48 PM   #33

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Catherine of Braganza was another if I recall correctly. Never crowned Queen, though Charles II did throw a rather large part on the Thames with boats etc for the appropriate pomp.
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Old June 8th, 2013, 02:01 PM   #34

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Its something to do with royal Catholics that can't have power in England.
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Old June 8th, 2013, 02:28 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
Elizabeth was crowned Queen, a solemn act, a ceremony of symbolism and meaning, where she was anointed as monarch, in the same fashion as those who had come before her, (with all the appropriate political paperwork that goes with it in Parliament as well). Philip is married to her, but he was not crowned, he was not made a king.

Simply marrying someone who is king/queen does not immediately make you the respective other. There is a process that must happen first, the act that makes them king/queen.
The monarch's heir succeedes to the throne upon the death of a monarch, Queen Elizabeth was Queen immediately upon her father's death, before her coronation. Also, the wife of a king is automatically a queen by law, just as the wife of a peer is automatically a peeress by law. Marrying a king does automatically make one a queen, with or without coronation, but the rule is that while you can gain a title and precedence through your parents or through your husband, you can not obtain it through your wife. So, for example, if a woman who's a commoner marries an Earl, she becomes a Countess with her precedence determined by ranking of her husband's peerage. However if a suo jure Countess marries a commoner, he does not become a Earl, he remains a commoner, though their children will be lords and ladies. Likewise, a commoner who marries a Queen would not automatically gain any title or precedence, he would remain a commoner unless additional titles were bestowed upon him (though it would be almost unthinkable for at least some titles to not be bestowed on a monarch's consort, several of which are usually granted before marriage to make the marriage more respectable).
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Old June 8th, 2013, 02:41 PM   #36

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Oh yes this Queen did not want to share her status and her hubby was just named the Duke of Edinburgh.
I think it's a simple case of male superiority as seen by our ancestors, that a King is higher up than a Queen; which is why the Queens of England/Great Britain have had a Prince consort, to keep her sovereignty.
It's all changed now though, the end of male primogeniture will not allow such ranking.

Anyway, Duke isn't such a bad title, especially as he gets to rule Edinburgh.....
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Old June 8th, 2013, 03:10 PM   #37
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I don't Mary had much say in anything at all.
Breakfast time:
William: "Look Mary, this England and Scotland offer, it sounds interesting but what's in it for me?"
Mary: "Willy, they have lovely pageantry and roast beef. You like your beef. Nice navy too, and good profits in wool."
Wil: "Yes alright alright. What about - you know- that. The throne. Me as -er-king and all. Won't go if I don't get the king spot".
Mary: "Oh Willy. Mother warned me about you".
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Old June 8th, 2013, 03:50 PM   #38
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I find all this fascinating and confusing.
Thank goodness we shucked all the monarchy & titles.
Jim Thorpe, an American Indian was the star of the 1912 Olympics in Stockholm. He was coached on how to act with royalty before being taken to meet the King of Sweden. When he was introduced to the king, he said "hi, king", which was a banner headline in the next days Times of London. Americans don't have titled royalty and aristocracy, and mostly don't understand such things. Also, that may be how you greet an Indian chief.
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Old June 8th, 2013, 04:45 PM   #39

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Oh yes this Queen did not want to share her status and her hubby was just named the Duke of Edinburgh.
We have a basic process when it comes to Royalty and it comes down to the basics.
They get respect, they get prestige and we obey them because that is how the country runs.
And when they get out of line we remind them about Charles the first, the wooden block and the pointy axe.

Its a strange balance but it works for us.
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Old June 8th, 2013, 05:08 PM   #40

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Originally Posted by constantine View Post
The monarch's heir succeedes to the throne upon the death of a monarch, Queen Elizabeth was Queen immediately upon her father's death, before her coronation. Also, the wife of a king is automatically a queen by law, just as the wife of a peer is automatically a peeress by law. Marrying a king does automatically make one a queen, with or without coronation, but the rule is that while you can gain a title and precedence through your parents or through your husband, you can not obtain it through your wife. So, for example, if a woman who's a commoner marries an Earl, she becomes a Countess with her precedence determined by ranking of her husband's peerage. However if a suo jure Countess marries a commoner, he does not become a Earl, he remains a commoner, though their children will be lords and ladies. Likewise, a commoner who marries a Queen would not automatically gain any title or precedence, he would remain a commoner unless additional titles were bestowed upon him (though it would be almost unthinkable for at least some titles to not be bestowed on a monarch's consort, several of which are usually granted before marriage to make the marriage more respectable).
way too complicated.
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