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Old August 16th, 2013, 09:45 AM   #31

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With the freedom of the press that came in 1789, the campaign against Marie Antoinette only increased. There were pamphlets as well as cartoins that the Queen was now having sex with General Lafayette.


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Above is a cartoon from 1789 showing General Lafayette on bended knee fondling the exposed “res publica” of Marie Antoinette.
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Old August 18th, 2013, 09:15 AM   #32

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The above cartoon is very interesting, I had no idea of this rumour between Antoinette and Lafayette. But it does not surprise that the accused General was Lafayette, his life was about to become even more controversial as he and general Dumouriez got what they wanted (war with Austria), which of course was followed by his own defection to the Austro-Prusian forces.
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Old August 27th, 2013, 11:11 AM   #33

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- Do you agree there was a campaign to attack and discredit her?

- If so, who were her attackers? And what was their objective?

- It’s said where there is fire, there is first smoke – do you see Marie Antoinette at all complicit in her own distruction? Or do you see her as simply a victim?

- How do you assess the effect of these pamphlets – on the reputation of Marie Antoinette? On the events of the French revolution? On the final treatment and fate of Marie Antoinette?
Dear Axel!
I like your post because I simpathize with beautiful and sincere Marie Antoinette, who was slandered by enemies.
1. It was a campaign to attack and discredit monarchy, the light-minded queen gave a good pretext for it.
2. Attackers were all enemies of Louis XVI from his brothers to revolutionaries and masons.
3. Marie Antoinette is definitely to be blamed for her frivolous behaviour, but I believe she was not a nimphomaniac or lesbian, she had the only lover Ferzen, who was a noble and brave gentleman. Her blame is that she despised her royal duty, she didn't care about her reputation and public opinion, it's a big fault for a queen.
4. The effect was extremely harmful not only for her but also for the king and for their children and for monarchy. It's very similar to attacks on Rasputin and Russian queen Alexandra before Russian revolution of 1917.
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Old September 1st, 2013, 06:15 PM   #34

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Dear Axel!
I like your post because I simpathize with beautiful and sincere Marie Antoinette, who was slandered by enemies.
1. It was a campaign to attack and discredit monarchy, the light-minded queen gave a good pretext for it.
2. Attackers were all enemies of Louis XVI from his brothers to revolutionaries and masons.
Dear Scientist,
I very much appreciate your comments. I too sympathize with the beautiful and tragic Queen Marie Antoinette. I don't think she realized the depth of hatred toward her and the level of the campaign waged against her. I agree with you that a key source of the libelles against the Queen were the Count de Provence, the Duc d"Orleans and others at court who were envious of her beauty and excluded from her circles of close friends.

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Old September 2nd, 2013, 11:57 AM   #35

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Dear Scientist,
I very much appreciate your comments. I too sympathize with the beautiful and tragic Queen Marie Antoinette. I don't think she realized the depth of hatred toward her and the level of the campaign waged against her. I agree with you that a key source of the libelles against the Queen were the Count de Provence, the Duc d"Orleans and others at court who were envious of her beauty and excluded from her circles of close friends.

Axel
Marie Antoinette was a queen of France, so she had to think of France rather then her entertainments and friends. It's a strange thing that Maria Theresia of Austria was a woman of strict moral though all her daughters were frivoulous.
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 12:15 PM   #36

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With the freedom of the press that came in 1789, the campaign against Marie Antoinette only increased. There were pamphlets as well as cartoins that the Queen was now having sex with General Lafayette.


Click the image to open in full size.

Above is a cartoon from 1789 showing General Lafayette on bended knee fondling the exposed “res publica” of Marie Antoinette.
I recently watched the Danish film "A Royal Affair", and I do believe this very illustration made an appearance in it.

In the film the Danish Queen is having an affair with the King's enlightened chief advisor, so you can kind of see the connection.
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 01:35 PM   #37

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She was remarkably stupid and I think she was genuinely clueless of the situation in France and her impending doom. She spent all her money building a dream world and being a little tart with the guard's officers. I doubt her self centred and myopic views ever moved further than her powder puffs.

She was the 18thC version of Britney Spears and Paris Hilton. Unfortunately they aren't going to suffer the same fate.
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 01:56 PM   #38

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She was remarkably stupid and I think she was genuinely clueless of the situation in France and her impending doom. She spent all her money building a dream world and being a little tart with the guard's officers. I doubt her self centred and myopic views ever moved further than her powder puffs.

She was the 18thC version of Britney Spears and Paris Hilton. Unfortunately they aren't going to suffer the same fate.
she was frivolous and extravagent, but she was not stupid, and she did curb her spending when she understood the resentment her extravagance caused. not that it made much difference, personal expenditure by the royal family accounted for only a tiny sliver of state expenditure, and really spending less made scarcely any difference to the economy.

She was not self centred and myopic, she showed more concern for the plight of the poor than most upper class people of her era. She and Louis genuinely cared for the welfare of their people.

there is no evidence of her being a tart with anyone, with the possible exception of Count Fersen, with whom she may have had an affair, after the revolution started.though that is purely speculation.
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 02:35 PM   #39

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she was frivolous and extravagent, but she was not stupid, and she did curb her spending when she understood the resentment her extravagance caused. not that it made much difference, personal expenditure by the royal family accounted for only a tiny sliver of state expenditure, and really spending less made scarcely any difference to the economy.

She was not self centred and myopic, she showed more concern for the plight of the poor than most upper class people of her era. She and Louis genuinely cared for the welfare of their people.

there is no evidence of her being a tart with anyone, with the possible exception of Count Fersen, with whom she may have had an affair, after the revolution started.though that is purely speculation.


Was she not having an affair with one of the guard's officers and did she not build her own little disney dreamland to parade around in? That's pretty daft when people are starving outside the palace gates.

I vaguely remember seeing that in a documentary a while ago and was always given the impression that that was the case.

Last edited by Earl_of_Rochester; September 2nd, 2013 at 02:59 PM.
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 03:00 PM   #40
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I find most individuals who are hard done by usually deserve some of the treatement due them. Just as she was subject to the most petty minded criticism im sure she could have countered it much better than she did. If the populace thinks you are the devil incarnate then I assume you are doing something wrong - other than being a foreigner.

I also think there must be some degree of whitewashing of Marie Antoinette going on. If its a given that the entire Parisian public were condemning her for the basest of motives(with a good dollop of misogyny thrown in) then she must herself be innocent. I dont see why both she and the Parisian public need not be just as guilty as each other.
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