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Old December 30th, 2017, 03:31 AM   #11

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Originally Posted by At Each Kilometer View Post
Soviets were officially opposed to any form of nationalism. It was regarded as reactionary, a creation of the proletariat's class enemy - the bourgeoisie. According to them nationalism was used by the upper classes to deliberately divide working class and thus distract them from class warfare and the real enemy. Felix Dzerzhinsky was a Bolshevik.
Interesting fact. I learned something new. If so, looks like the Soviets sang a different tune during WW2. Say what you want about nationalism or patriotism, it can motivate people to do the unthinkable.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 10:45 AM   #12

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Originally Posted by At Each Kilometer View Post
Soviets were officially opposed to any form of nationalism. It was regarded as reactionary, a creation of the proletariat's class enemy - the bourgeoisie. According to them nationalism was used by the upper classes to deliberately divide working class and thus distract them from class warfare and the real enemy. Felix Dzerzhinsky was a Bolshevik.
True. Any national-liberation movement against Imperial Russia (including its Bolshevism period) was seen as reactionary. This explains why poets, musicians, historians, priests and teachers specializing in their national/ethnic area were executed by the Bolsheviks/Communists first.

I will not comment on Felix Dzerzhinsky. Regretfully, every nation has its traitors.

Last edited by Underground; January 2nd, 2018 at 10:48 AM.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 10:51 AM   #13

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Persecuted bandurists

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Kobzars were a unique class of musicians in Ukraine, who travelled between towns and sang dumas, a meditative poem-song. Kobzars were usually blind, and required the completion of a three-year apprenticeship in specialized Kobzar guilds, in order to be officially recognized as such. In 1932, on the order of Stalin, the Soviet authorities called on all Ukrainian Kobzars to attend a congress in Kharkiv. Those that arrived were taken outside the city and were all put to death.[citation needed]
Persecution of bandurists and kobzari by the Soviet authorities can be divided up into various periods. These periods differed in the type and length of persecution and punishments were dealt out and also the reason for the punishment. Following is a list of persecuted Bandurists sourced from Music from the shadows Roman Malko[1] and The Voices of the Dead by Kuromiya Hiroaki.[2]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecuted_bandurists
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 07:50 AM   #14

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Ukrainian bandurists (folk musicians)

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Monument to the executed musicians (Ukraine)
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Old January 7th, 2018, 02:27 PM   #15
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As I already described in my post, these groups also were seen by Kremlin as those who could not be retrained to see the "bright Soviet future".
Basically, most ethnicities of the neighbouring countries of USSR with some exceptions.
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Old January 7th, 2018, 02:32 PM   #16
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I recall a post by Antonina (in my opinion she is a subject expert) saying that Polish people were targeted by Kremlin. Men were executed and women with children were deported. Unfortunately, Polish last names ending with "ski" and "cki" were equivalent to the death sentence...
In general, but not always. On many occasions women and children were also executed . Remains of women and children are found in mass graves. There were numerous mass graves near certain cities such as Kiev or Minsk

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I may add that Ukrainian peasants in 1930s were also seen by Kremlin as those who could not be re-trained. Therefore, a mass starvation Holodomor was used as an inexpensive tool to kill Ukrainian peasants.
Authorities didn't target Ukrainian peasants as such. They targeted a social class. Southern Russia and northern Kazakhstan suffered no less than Ukraine. Ironically, it's pro-Russian eastern and southern Ukraine that suffered the most, while western Ukraine was part of Poland during 1932-1933.
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Old January 8th, 2018, 11:20 AM   #17

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In general, but not always. On many occasions women and children were also executed . Remains of women and children are found in mass graves. There were numerous mass graves near certain cities such as Kiev or Minsk



Authorities didn't target Ukrainian peasants as such. They targeted a social class. Southern Russia and northern Kazakhstan suffered no less than Ukraine. Ironically, it's pro-Russian eastern and southern Ukraine that suffered the most, while western Ukraine was part of Poland during 1932-1933.
Yes and no ... peasants are a class. Targeted class with the rich peasants (Russian word KULAKS) to be executed or deported to die in Siberia. Then they targeted SEREDNYAK (also a Russian word meaning "average peasant") . As a class and as an ethnicity, Ukrainian peasants were targeted by Holodomor (death by starvation) because Ukrainian peasants did not want to join collective farms similar to (KIBUTZ - a Jewish word ~1915 or so). Take a look at the articles written by Lenin who called peasant class idiots.

With respect to "Ironically, it's pro-Russian eastern and southern Ukraine that suffered the most, while western Ukraine was part of Poland during 1932-1933." This is basically wrong. The whole Ukraine occupied and re-grabbed after 1918 independence of Ukraine, by Russian/Moscow/Bolshevik regime was suffering pretty much in the same fashion. Please see maps of the Holodomor death for different regions of Ukraine. Western Ukraine was blessed till 1939 when they were a part of the western world. Then the Soviets occupied it. Therefore, Holodomor of 1932-1933 could not take place in post-1939 Western Ukraine.

With respect to the Eastern Ukraine - please see colonization by ethnic Russians the eastern territories of Ukraine exterminated by the Holodomor. You may find data on how many trains, Russian collective farmers, Russian families etc, moved these people to the houses of dead Ukrainians, naturally, most of them settled in the eastern Ukraine, close to the border with Russia and closer to the railroads from Russia.

Last edited by Underground; January 8th, 2018 at 11:24 AM.
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Old January 8th, 2018, 11:25 AM   #18

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Old January 8th, 2018, 11:30 AM   #19
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@Underground

Western Ukraine blessed while being part of Poland till 1939? Many Ukrainian schools, cultural centres, newspapers and Ukrainian language were banned in western Ukraine till 1939. This resulted and ethnic conflict between Ukrainians and Poles in Volyn and eastern Galica after 1939 during WWII known as Volyn massacre. People of western Ukraine were far from being blessed.

NEP existed till 1929. During that time Kulaks or well to do peasants were not deported or targets It's after 1929 that severe collectivisation started. Authorities targeted a social class rather than particular ethnicities. If it was only Ukraine, then peasants of southern Russia and northern Kazakhstan would no suffer from famine either.

Edit:
Good map. During 1932-1933 Crimea was part of Russia. Kuban region and Rostov-on-Don region (east of Azov sea) is southern Russia. As well as entire lower Volga region from Saratov down to Volgograd down to Caspian. If you look for a better map you will find entire northern Kazakhstan region was affected by famine too.

Last edited by lexell; January 8th, 2018 at 11:33 AM.
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Old January 8th, 2018, 11:34 AM   #20

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Peasant culture facts, information, pictures | Encyclopedia.com articles ...

Encyclopedia.com | Free Online Encyclopedia › ... › Sociology: General Terms and Concepts


The peasantry, according to Lenin, represented a form of petty-bourgeois independent production within the framework of an increasingly capitalist economy. Therefore, the class which was called upon by history to lead the way to the new socialist society was the militant industrial proletariat of the cities
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