Baconman

Im Swedish but have any of you gentlemen and ladies ever heard of Gustavus Adolphious of sweden ?????

crossroadclarence

I have. Leader in the Thirty years war, Sweden's rise to a great power, etc.

I have seen the Swedish cannonballs still lodged in the woodwork of German houses.

Baconman

ah yes sweden gained many possessions in germany after the war

DIVUS IVLIVS

A person who has not heard of Gustavus Adolphus is a person who needs to do a little bit more reading before they can claim to be knowledgable about history in general.

Waleis

I wish we could set history knowledge standards at that level. I have a friend who asked me the other day who julius caesar was...

Waleis

Gustavus Adolphus was pretty much amazing. of course, I wouldn't say he was the founder of modern warfare...but I will say he was a very important figure in military development.

DIVUS IVLIVS

*shakes head*

I mean your friend no offence, but that is just a little bit sad.

Well, in any case, note that I said this applies only to people who claim to be generally knowledgable about history.

Still, just a little bit saddening.

gaius valerius

Modern Warfare (unless you reject the Military Revolution thesis of G. Parker irrc) has 2 founders:

* Maurits of Nassau (he was older if we have to nitpick)

* Gustaphus Adolphus



As always, I'm quite appalled by the ignorance on the part of the Swedes in this matter (shame on you ) It's always Gustaphe this Gustaphe that and they simply ignore actual history...

Toltec

What actually qualifies these people to be called the founder of modern warfare over others?

gaius valerius

Well there is the thesis of the "military revolution" first formulated by Michael Roberts in the 1950's, not everyone agrees but in essence now real replacing critique has been founded as of yet, it has most deeply been expanded (with critique) upon by Geoffrey Parker ;http://www.spectacle.org/697/yee.html


In short: both Maurits and Gustaphe lay the foundations of modern warfare with modern (land-cause the M.R. encomprises much more then just land combat)armies. For example Maurits introduced training in the winter (rather then disbanding most of the army and sending them home till the right season), he also took care of supplying his men with uniforms, so they'd look the same on the battlefield. Another member of the Nassau family printed drill books which quickly became standard. Gustaphe can write the same on his conto, though for more details I'd have to read in on it again, I'm basically writing down what I still remember of this subject. In short it comes down to this, when we talk about the emergence of modern warfare we talk about the several evolutions that took place in this period: new technologies leading to new strategies and tactics, in other words: the military profession became more and more 'professional' and larger in scale. From now armies (and military infrastructure) became more and more expensive (for example the winter drill meant men were more trained but also more expensive and more valuable). Scale enlargement (in a variety of field, not just land but also naval combat and siege warfare, see the short summary with the link above) and all that it encompasses might very well summon this up best. And when it comes to combat on land (so not siege warfare - for this happened earlier) Maurits and Gustaphe were what we would call pioneers;