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Old February 8th, 2015, 04:13 PM   #71

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Originally Posted by Drummerboy View Post
that knucklehead said that the War was already decided before we come in Europe.
If you're talking about Domhnall Balloch, he never said anything like that. I'm assuming he was just referring to the BoB, meaning he was arguing they guaranteed their independence without American aid. Not necessarily meaning the war was over.

Last edited by Warehouse; February 8th, 2015 at 04:28 PM.
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Old February 8th, 2015, 04:41 PM   #72

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Originally Posted by Drummerboy View Post
Wrong.

What's disrespectful to the thousands of American GI's who died during Normandy and everywhere in Europe thereafter is when that knucklehead said that the War was already decided before we come in Europe.
The same way you are being disrespectful by gloating about Britain sinking without American help. Whether it would or would not have is irrelevant, because America helped and we became allies. In other words, Britain and America spilt blood together on different continents.

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We needed no help in protecting our coasts, BTW.
Yes you did. Perhaps you have not heard of reverse lend lease? Britain and her empire provide more than just military bases to America. Also food, clothes and other war materials such as planes and patrol boats - which helped patrol American waters when the U-boats attacked American coastal waters with the wolf packs.

Here is a letter by Roosevelt to congress, talking about the expenditure on reverse lend lease. It went both ways.


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You should be ashamed of yourself for accusing me of disrespecting veterans who died in WWII just because I feel my country's Armed Forces were the best.
No, I said it's disrespectful to talk about it the manner in which you were. It's irrelevant whether you think your armed forces were "better", it's the manner in which you said it.

And, pound for pound, the Germans probably had the best fighting troops. They could hold defensive lines far better than the allies could. Monte Cassino and other events in Italy demonstrate this.

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That's a cheap shot and the sort of lame rebuttal people use when they have no facts to present. So they do what is called "an appeal to emotion" in debate circles; where it is rightly scoffed at.
Oh please, spare me the straw man.

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No respect for the dead. Really? I am a veteran.
Once again, I didn't say you did directly. I said it's disrespectful to talk in that manner. Unless you are a veteran of WWII, you don't get a free pass to say what you want without question. You get respect for serving, but that's it.


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I fully understand the meaning of the word "Allies." I am at this point wondering if you understand the meaning of the word "pride?"
Maybe it is yourself that should stop appealing to emotion, not I.
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Old February 9th, 2015, 04:43 AM   #73
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Wrong.

What's disrespectful to the thousands of American GI's who died during Normandy and everywhere in Europe thereafter is when that knucklehead said that the War was already decided before we come in Europe.

We needed no help in protecting our coasts, BTW.

You should be ashamed of yourself for accusing me of disrespecting veterans who died in WWII just because I feel my country's Armed Forces were the best. That's a cheap shot and the sort of lame rebuttal people use when they have no facts to present. So they do what is called "an appeal to emotion" in debate circles; where it is rightly scoffed at.

No respect for the dead. Really? I am a veteran.

How about you?

I fully understand the meaning of the word "Allies." I am at this point wondering if you understand the meaning of the word "pride?"

TO PENDENNIS--Good post, my friend! But I am trying to bait no one. I truly believe everything I have said thus far in regards to the respective qualities of all Armies and personnel involved in WWII
The German invasion of Britain was defeated before the US entered the war. It's chronological, objective truth. There's no arguing with a timeline.

Even had Britain not beaten the German invasion, even had it fallen, the US would still not have won the war for the Allies. Because the Red Army dished out 80% of Axis casualties. There's no arguing with those kinds of numbers, either.

Last edited by Domhnall Balloch; February 9th, 2015 at 05:12 AM.
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Old February 9th, 2015, 05:05 PM   #74

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Originally Posted by Drummerboy View Post
Wrong.

What's disrespectful to the thousands of American GI's who died during Normandy and everywhere in Europe thereafter is when that knucklehead said that the War was already decided before we come in Europe.
Disrespectful? No, quite simply his statement was true. By the time the US army divisions fought their first major battle against the Germans at Kassarine pass, or when the 8th air force made it's first mission over Germany ( both 1943) - most will argue that Germany had already passed the point of no return - they were going to lose the war regardless.

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Originally Posted by Drummerboy View Post
We needed no help in protecting our coasts, BTW.
Absolutely categorically wrong.

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Originally Posted by Sam-Nary View Post
I'd suggest reading up on Operation Drumroll. The U-boats enjoyed their Second Happy Time shortly after America's entry into the war and in American waters besides. The British, in a reversal of lend-lease did have to provide aide to the US to deal with Donitz's submariners...
Ahem, actually Drumbeat... Not to nitpick.

Drummerboy, "needed no help"?

Ask yourself why there is a British WWII cemetery in NC for the Royal Navy sailors? They died protecting the US coastline from U-boats in early 1942 - when the USN was incapable of doing so.

British Cemeteries - Cape Hatteras National Seashore (U.S. National Park Service)

Quote:
Walking the streets of historic Ocracoke NC, visitors may be surprised to see a sign directing them to a British cemetery. In the early years of World War II, the U.S. Navy was ill-prepared for the German U-Boat threat prowling off the Atlantic coast. Merchant ships from various nations running along the eastern seaboard were constantly harassed and sunk by the German submarines. The U.S. Navy had no ships suited to anti-submarine patrol. Britain offered assistance, sending 24 Royal Navy vessels with their British crews to patrol sensitive areas along the East Coast, including the Outer Banks.
In addition to "Drumbeat", look up "USS Robin" - actually the British aircraft carrier HMS Victorious, loaned to the US Navy in late 1942-early 1943 at American request, to help combat the IJN, due to Nimitz having only one operational carrier left.

USS Robin ? The Victorious U.S. Carrier that Didn?t Exist | Armchair General | Armchair General Magazine - We Put YOU in Command!

Quote:
The short, strange story of the "USS Robin" began in December of 1942. The United States Navy found itself with only one fleet carrier operational and needed another large carrier to help assist in the theater until the first of the new Essex-class carriers became operationally available. The solution turned out to be simply making a request to the Royal Navy for a loan. The Royal Navy decided to loan the USN an Illustrious-class carrier, the HMS Victorious under the command of Captain L. D. MacIntosh, Royal Navy.

Last edited by Lord Fairfax; February 9th, 2015 at 05:08 PM.
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Old February 9th, 2015, 06:57 PM   #75

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drummerboy View Post
Wrong.

What's disrespectful to the thousands of American GI's who died during Normandy and everywhere in Europe thereafter is when that knucklehead said that the War was already decided before we come in Europe.
Firstly; personal insults are a key indicator that you are losing the argument and are on the defensive.

Secondly; he didn't say the war was already decided, he said the threat of invasion had been nullified and that's a different matter entirely.
Since you are so keen to throw around claims of fallacy in debate you should be aware that this is a prime example of strawman.
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Old February 9th, 2015, 11:34 PM   #76

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Fairfax View Post
Ask yourself why there is a British WWII cemetery in NC for the Royal Navy sailors? They died protecting the US coastline from U-boats in early 1942 - when the USN was incapable of doing so.
I knew of the British assistance off the east coast, and have heard of the Robin. But I didn't know of the cemeteries. I appreciate the link.
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