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Old December 19th, 2015, 04:03 AM   #601
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Do we had women in parity to the man? It's a nice movie with Antony Banderas, did you guys saw that movie. At that movie was a fight between the indigenous Britons and Normans if I am right. The indigenous people were leaded by a woman. They called her "the mother" . She was very important for them. What do you think, is there anything true, or it's just a fiction?

2- it's important to know the position of the woman. Why? Because seems that the pre- IE people of Europe were somehow matriarchal. We know that the Etruscan women had an important position . There are other indicators showing that the pre IE people were matriarchal. To the other hand the core of IE people were patriarchal. My theory is that the Celts are more connected to the pre- IE tribes rather than the Germanics and Slavs. The Celts inherited more cultural- linguistic stuff from the pre- IE indigenous people of Europe .
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Old December 19th, 2015, 05:50 AM   #602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piro ilir View Post
Do we had women in parity to the man? It's a nice movie with Antony Banderas, did you guys saw that movie. At that movie was a fight between the indigenous Britons and Normans if I am right. The indigenous people were leaded by a woman. They called her "the mother" . She was very important for them. What do you think, is there anything true, or it's just a fiction?
I think you mean the film 'The Thirteenth Warrior' where Banderas, a muslim, joins some Norse Vikings. It is a loose retelling of the Anglo Saxon epic poem 'Beowulf' taken from a work of fiction by Michael Crighton's Eaters of the Dead.

Beowulf is Geat who, with his men, help Hrothgar, king of the Spear Danes, who live in the Hall, Heorot. This hall is being attacked at night by Grendel. In the film 13th Warrior, Beowulf is called Buliwyf, Hrothgar is named the same and Grendel is a band of flesh eaters dressed in bear skins called Wendol. Both Grendel and the Wendol have a 'mother' who must also be killed as she will seek revenge.

Whilst the action in Beowulf takes place in Denmark, in the 13th Warrior, the action is somewhere in Kievan Russia and Buliwyf and his men are probably returning from Byzantium. Inspiration for the character played by Banderas is from an arab who travelled to Denmark, Ahmad ibn Fadlan.

The interesting thing about the original anglo saxon poem Beowulf is that it was composed in England, but that all the action takes place in Denmark with Beowulf himself coming from Vastragötaland in Sweden. Geat is an anglicisation of Götar. Whilst most of the story is fantasy, some of the characters may have been real. This is supposedley Beowulf's burial mound at Skarlunda:

Click the image to open in full size.


Matriarchs however were important in both Germanic and Celtic societies. Many roman soldiers built shrines to the so called Matres and Matrones, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matres_and_Matronae

This is a carving of the Dea Matrona, an imortant mother goddess in the celtic world:

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by authun; December 19th, 2015 at 06:01 AM.
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Old December 19th, 2015, 06:41 AM   #603
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Quote:
Do we had women in parity to the man? It's a nice movie with Antony Banderas, did you guys saw that movie. At that movie was a fight between the indigenous Britons and Normans if I am right. The indigenous people were leaded by a woman. They called her "the mother" . She was very important for them. What do you think, is there anything true, or it's just a fiction?
The whole thing may be fiction, depending what you think of the historicity of Beowulf.

But it is a fact that women occasionally led 'Celtic' armies. Mind you, they also occasionally led non-Celtic armies (both Germanic and later feudal ones), so it is hard to say that Celtic societies were matriarchal by comparison. Overall Celtic societies were kinder to women than their neighbours' but less likely to let them lead.

Last edited by Domhnall Balloch; December 19th, 2015 at 06:47 AM.
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Old December 19th, 2015, 06:49 AM   #604
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I always like to point out that in the beginning of the story the hero is out Walrus hunting and the boat sinks and he must swim for three days to get to land, this took place in the North Sea and the sagas say it was warm enough to swim in for three days? Climate change. LOL!
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Old December 19th, 2015, 06:52 AM   #605
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The Celts were a 'merit' based people and if a Woman was strong enough in personality, and wise enough, she could lead the family, the tribe, or the Army. Boudicca, anyone?
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Old December 19th, 2015, 07:00 AM   #606
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The Celts were a 'merit' based people and if a Woman was strong enough in personality, and wise enough, she could lead the family, the tribe, or the Army. Boudicca, anyone?
Celtic societies were not meritocratic. Boudicca was the wife of a king.
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Old December 19th, 2015, 07:25 AM   #607
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Celtic joke from 123AD
Roman Centurion and his blokes, sitting and having a fag by Hadrian's wall. Celt stands on the wall and says 'Go Home and take your rusty olf chariots whth you!'
Centurion dispatches a coupe of men to kill the cheeky little git. Hours later they haven't returned.
Then the same Celt stood on top of the wall and said 'Oi you big Roman nancy GO Home!
THis time the Centurion sent ten men, his best fighters. Only one returned saying 'It was a trap! THere were two of them!
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Old December 19th, 2015, 07:34 AM   #608
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I'll take my lumps on the degree of meritocracy of the British Celts,(so she was his wife, not just ANY 'wife' would have had the 'stones' to lead an army against Rome, she HAD to have had SOME "chutzpa"!)

But SMOKING on Hadrian's Wall???

In 123? Hmmmm.
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Old December 19th, 2015, 07:38 AM   #609
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Not telling it like it is, just how it ought to be.
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Old December 19th, 2015, 07:38 AM   #610
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Quote:
I'll take my lumps on the degree of meritocracy of the British Celts,(so she was his wife, not just ANY 'wife' would have had the 'stones' to lead an army against Rome, she HAD to have had SOME "chutzpa"!)
Apologies, just there's a lot of idealistic stuff floating around about the Celts. Romanticism gets on my goat
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