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Old September 8th, 2015, 11:24 AM   #121

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When it comes to matters of onomastica and borrowings in French, the literature almost always employs the general term OG, or "Old German". Getting into the subtle differences between Frankish and OHG and the like would be largely superfluous in this context.
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Old September 8th, 2015, 12:00 PM   #122

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I had an Norman in my family.

Biographie de Maurice Guignard

he was the founder of the heilige normanske odiniske kirka

I always thought that he was a bit crazy, until I went to visit him with an icelandic journalist. And much to our surprise he was really fluent in Icelandic.

There are a lot of characters like that in Normandy.
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Old September 8th, 2015, 12:17 PM   #123

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And to answer the question, yes they were French. Because they decided so.


Les raids vikings en Normandie | Histoire de la Normandie
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Old September 9th, 2015, 12:43 AM   #124
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The landless knights form Normandy who conquered lands for themselves in southern Italy, Sicily and Outremer were all referred to as "Franks", the same as knights from other parts of what is now France.

That is because their language and culture was the same as that of the Franks.
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Old September 9th, 2015, 03:00 AM   #125

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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael mills View Post
The landless knights form Normandy who conquered lands for themselves in southern Italy, Sicily and Outremer were all referred to as "Franks", the same as knights from other parts of what is now France.

That is because their language and culture was the same as that of the Franks.
Wasn't Frank an umbrella term in the Arabic-speaking medieval world for Christian Europeans independently whether they were French, German (who were Eastern Franks) or whatever?
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Old September 9th, 2015, 08:33 AM   #126

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And to answer the question, yes they were French. Because they decided so.


Les raids vikings en Normandie | Histoire de la Normandie
Wace in the Roman de Rou identifies himself as Norman and specifically not French.

This is a flavour of what he tells Henry II.

"When the French could not overcome the Normans by force, they used to employ many a trick to harm them. They are a far cry from the heroes of songs; they are treacherous and disloyal, no one should trust them."
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Old September 9th, 2015, 09:15 AM   #127

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Wace in the Roman de Rou identifies himself as Norman and specifically not French.

This is a flavour of what he tells Henry II.

"When the French could not overcome the Normans by force, they used to employ many a trick to harm them. They are a far cry from the heroes of songs; they are treacherous and disloyal, no one should trust them."
I'd rather say they made this distinction because the tale wouldn't make any sense otherwise.

"When the French could not overcome the French by force, they used to employ many a trick to harm them. They are a far cry from the heroes of songs; they are treacherous and disloyal, no one should trust them."
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Old September 9th, 2015, 10:29 AM   #128

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I'd rather say they made this distinction because the tale wouldn't make any sense otherwise.

"When the French could not overcome the French by force, they used to employ many a trick to harm them. They are a far cry from the heroes of songs; they are treacherous and disloyal, no one should trust them."
Presumably Wace was referring to the Parisians and not Henry's Angevin family. In any event, Henry did not take kindly to it and replaced Wace with a French chronicler.
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Old September 9th, 2015, 10:35 AM   #129

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haesten View Post
Wace in the Roman de Rou identifies himself as Norman and specifically not French.

This is a flavour of what he tells Henry II.

"When the French could not overcome the Normans by force, they used to employ many a trick to harm them. They are a far cry from the heroes of songs; they are treacherous and disloyal, no one should trust them."
Do you know the expression une réponse de Normand?

Traduction réponse de normand anglais | Dictionnaire français-anglais | Reverso

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Old September 9th, 2015, 10:40 AM   #130

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Wasn't Frank an umbrella term in the Arabic-speaking medieval world for Christian Europeans independently whether they were French, German (who were Eastern Franks) or whatever?
Even the Thai are calling the Westener Farang.


https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farang
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