Historum - History Forums

The Real Trojan War

Korin — Sat, 25 May 2013 01:53:03 GMT

What was the real Trojan War like, the historical trojans I mean.

Why did the Western Roman Empire disappear from history, but the Byzantine Empire...

Korin — Sat, 25 May 2013 01:50:50 GMT

Why did the Western Empire disappeared but the Eastern [Byzantine] Empire survived, why was this? Wikipedia doesn't really state it clear enough. Did some battle make them disappear, but that doesn't make sense, probably the people who wrote the history didn't write about Western Roman Empire a lot, mostly just the Byzantines, why did they disappear from history anyways?

What did the Goths do to destroy the Western Empire, and why didn't the Eastern Empire go with the Western part?

hello from new zealand

28thbattalion — Sat, 25 May 2013 01:48:52 GMT

hey guys,
was just cruising the web and discovered this, it will be good to talk to others who share my interest in history as my wife and four year old get bored with my rants!!

Agamemnon - was he truly a mad king?

Korin — Sat, 25 May 2013 01:47:22 GMT

Was he truly mad or was it just the stories and modern culture had the idea of him being a tyrannical king.

Unsung British Catholic Cleric of the War of 1812

Pearl of Tyburn — Fri, 24 May 2013 21:44:58 GMT

Hello, Everyone,

Has anyone ever heard of Bishop Alexander McDonell of Kingston, Onatrio? He has to be one of the most unsung figures in British history, and I'm amazed that, even among the Catholic community in Canada, he is very little known.

He started out as an outlaw "Priest of the Heather", returning to his native Scotland after being ordained in France due to the Penal Laws against Catholics. In the midst of the Highland Clearances, he risked legal penalties by brining his Catholic clan into Glasgow so that they could find work in that city. That proving to be increasingly difficult, he boldy petitioned King George III to raise a Catholic regiment for the British Army.

This regiment, called the Glengarry Fencibles, went on to fight against the '98 Rebellion in Ireland, gaining the distinction of being one of the few British regiments not to have commited atrocoties against the inhabitants. Fr. McDonell served them in the capacity of military chaplain.

Later, he and his clan immigrated to Upper Canada, where the regiment was later reestablished to combat the threat of American invasion during the War of 1812. He worked tirelessly among his men and made various high-ranking contacts throughout the war, bringing Catholicism into a more favorable light among the Protestant elite. Years later, he was given a ring by King George IV in honor of his services to his country. He died in his native Scotland.

God Bless,
Pearl

The Death of Elmer Ellsworth, May 24th, 1861

Salah — Fri, 24 May 2013 21:34:18 GMT

'He who noteth even the fall of a sparrow, will have some purpose even in the fate of one like me.'
-Colonel Elmer Ellsworth, in his last letter to his parents

On May 24th, 2013, it has been 152 years to the day since the first notable fatality of the American Civil War - Elmer Ellsworth, who was cut down while confiscating a Secessionist flag in Alexandria, Virginia.

Elmer Ephraim Ellsworth was born at Malta, New York in 1837. He moved to Illinois as a teenager, where he worked for a patent agency and became engaged to a local young woman, Carrie Spafford. Allegedly at the insistence of his future father-in-law, Ellsworth sought out a more lucrative career. The year 1860 found him studying law in Springfield, where he became both a friend and a vocal supporter of Abraham Lincoln.

Ellsworth was a handsome young man; though he was short and had rather delicate features, he had a rigid, soldier-like bearing. He was intelligence and ambitious, and was fierce in his loyalties as a patriot and a Republican. The young lawyer, however, had possessed a passion for all things military since boyhood - legend claims that he armed his childhood friends with sticks and drilled them as an infantry regiment.

Unsurprisingly, Ellsworth was involved in the militia culture that was prevalent in 19th Century America. By the end of the 1850s, he had already helped organize militia units in Illinois and Wisconsin, and had become the colonel of a company based in Chicago. Like many Americans, he was fascinated by reports of the French-Algerian zouave regiments that had fought during the Crimean War. The result was a 'zouave craze' that sweeped the United States in the years immediately leading up to the Civil War. A variety of American militia units adopted the tassled fezs, tight jackets, baggy pants, and gawdy colors associated with the French originals.

In 1860, Ellsworth had formed his own company of Zouaves. While most Zouave units (European or American) were known for their wild antics and questionable discipline, Ellsworth was brutally demanding of his men. Not only did he impose rigid discipline, he also expected them to be men of frim moral character - devout Christians who abstained from drinking. The 'Zouave Cadets' toured New England during the 1860 Presidential Campaign and became celebrities - apart from John Wilkes Booth, no man was more popular with American ladies in the 1860s than the dashing Elmer Ellsworth.

As the Civil War opened in April of 1861, Ellsworth, who had accompanied Lincoln to Washington upon his election, traveled to New York City to create a regiment of zouave volunteers. The result was the 11th New York Volunteer Infantry Regiment, otherwise known as the Fire Zouaves. They were conspicuous for their crimson red shirts and fezs - several months later, at First Manassas, some of them also fought shirtless, apparently to show off their tatoos. The majority of them were first-generation Irish immigrants, who had been employed as firefighters.

The soldiers of the American Civil War were always prone to drunken mischief, but the 11th New York took their good-natured hell-raising to epic levels. Upon their arrival in Washington on May 7th, 1861, they burglarized a shoe store (telling the owner to 'send the bill to Abe Lincoln'), hanged Jeff Davis in effigy, stole a fire engine, and in general, made drunken nuisances of themselves. Ellsworth enforced his customary rigid discipline, however, and the 11th managed to redeem themselves in the eyes of the Capitol by helping to put out a fire in a store next to Willard's Hotel.

On the night of May 23rd-24th, 1861, Ellsworth and his regiment spearheaded a movement from Washington into Alexandria, Virginia. The town was occupied without a single casualty - a unit of 500 Confederate infantry had surrendered without firing a shot.

At dawn on the 24th, Ellsworth noticed a Rebel flag being defiantly flown from the Marshall House, an Alexandrian tavern. Emboldened by his success, Ellsworth stormed into the tavern, accompanied by Corporal Francis E. Brownell and three other Fire Zouaves. The Union men stomped up the stairs and removed the flag, Ellworth himself carrying it as they descended.

Unfortunately, James Jackson, the owner of the tavern was waiting for them with a double barrelled shotgun. Jackson, incensed when he saw his flag in Ellsworth's hands, fired. The blast tore through Ellsworth's chest, and he slumped to the floor, exclaiming 'my God!' as he died. Corporal Brownell instantly lowered his own musket and fired into Jackson's forehead, killing him. For possibly the first time in the Civil War, the bodies and the blood of a Union man and a Southern laid side-by-side.

Ellsworth was treated to a grand funeral in the streets of Washington DC. The entire city turned out in mourning, and others expressed outrage and dreams of revenge - indeed, an entire zouave regiment would later be formed under the name 'Ellsworth's Avengers'.

President Lincoln, who had been a father-figure to Ellsworth, took his death particularly hard. He could have hardly imagined that the day was soon coming when the battlefield death of a Union colonel would barely even deserve passing mention in a newspaper. Elmer Ellsworth was the first of some 600,000 young men who would pay the ultimate price to preserve the Union.

Sources:

Boatner III, Mark - The Civil War Dictionary
Furgurson, Ernest - Freedom Rising: Washington in the Civil War
Smith, Robin - American Civil War Zouaves

Irish Celt - stone of destiny

olly — Fri, 24 May 2013 21:00:30 GMT

where do the Irish come from originally and where did they get the stone of destiny or Jacobs pillow?

East and West

The Black Knight — Fri, 24 May 2013 20:25:28 GMT

Another thread got me thinking; what does Historum have to say of Medieval Europe's most prominent feature: its dual nature, of a Greek east and Latin west?

Many have argued that this oringinates in Roman times; once Latin had spread to the West, a gradual linguistic and cultural rift emerged between the two halves of the Mediterranean, which continued and grew into the Medieval period. I understand that many, as a result, tend to see Byzantium as different from the West wholly- and to not have evovled out of the same world.

My own opinion is of course a far different story, and wholly influenced and biased of course:cool:, by my fervent study of the southern Mediterranean. But what are your thoughts on the subject, Historumites?

What are your opinions on Valdemar II

Yekkelle — Fri, 24 May 2013 18:41:18 GMT

Valdemar II of Denmark. What is your rating?

Decisive battles of the Revolutionary War

Salah — Fri, 24 May 2013 18:31:10 GMT

We can pinpoint certain battles and campaigns in the American Civil War - Vicksburg being perhaps the best example - that clearly shaped the course and outcome of the War.

To what extent can we do the same for the American War of Independence? What do you consider to be the most significant battles of this war, and more importantly why?

Hello from Croatia!

The Emperor — Fri, 24 May 2013 18:26:37 GMT

Hi! I found out about this forum an hour ago and decided to sign in because it seems easier to navigate through the forum if logged in. I'm interested in early human history, from old Middle East cultures to early Medieval ages. I'm really glad there is such an interesting forum like this! :)

The military abilities of Frederick the Great

Salah — Fri, 24 May 2013 18:24:43 GMT

Just finished watching this documentary:

Frederick the Great - YouTube

I've heard of the battles of Rossbach and Leuthen before, but never really studied them until today. One of my books describes the latter battle as 'a masterpiece of movement, maneuver, and resolve', while the documentary above suggests that Frederick first displayed military brilliance in the Rossbach campaign - yet it also goes on to say that he lost eight of the sixteen battles he fought during the Seven Years War.

Does Frederick deserve the reputation of a military genius?

What are your thoughts on the First Duke of Bedford?

Yekkelle — Fri, 24 May 2013 17:52:09 GMT

What are your thoughts on the First Duke of Bedford?

Cause of the American Civil War

HoraceHighwater — Fri, 24 May 2013 15:24:50 GMT

Hello, I'm new to the forum and had a question about two different causes I learned in my college classes about the Civil War. I took a U.S. History to 1865 last semester and I learned that the Civil War was due to several different reasons; sectionalism, states' rights, cultural differences, etc. including the issue of slavery. I also learned in the class that the Civil War was not just fought over the issue of slavery and that Lincoln would have ended the war while keeping slavery if he could have. This semester I took African-American History and the teacher was very adamant that the Civil War was fought over the issue of slavery. She said that some people try and argue it was over many different issues, but she said that all those issue were rooted in the preservation of slavery. I was wondering what you all think the cause(s) of the Civil War were.

Impartial Objectivity

Edmond Dantes — Fri, 24 May 2013 14:51:01 GMT

Is there ever a point where objectivity itself simply becomes another bias influencing are decision making?