Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > General History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

General History General History Forum - General history questions and discussions


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old February 17th, 2017, 07:30 AM   #1
Citizen
 
Joined: Feb 2017
From: The Rainforests
Posts: 31
Similarities of the Ching and Ottoman empire before their fall.


I noticed they shared some traits.

1)One was known as the Sick Man of Europe while the other was known as the Sick Man of Asia.

2)Both were overthrown by a revolutionary who wants to bring the "country forward" and favored Western ideas.

3)Both existed somewhat around the same era.

4)Both were a dynasty style government.

5)One had to face a majority number of nationalist Arabs while one had to face a majority number of nationalist Han Chinese.

6)The Western powers grabbed the territories of both empires?

I would like to hear more opinions on this.

Last edited by Knapf; February 17th, 2017 at 07:34 AM.
Knapf is offline  
Remove Ads
Old February 17th, 2017, 08:30 AM   #2
Suspended until August 21st, 2017
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,912

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knapf View Post
I noticed they shared some traits.

1)One was known as the Sick Man of Europe while the other was known as the Sick Man of Asia.

2)Both were overthrown by a revolutionary who wants to bring the "country forward" and favored Western ideas.

3)Both existed somewhat around the same era.

4)Both were a dynasty style government.

5)One had to face a majority number of nationalist Arabs while one had to face a majority number of nationalist Han Chinese.

6)The Western powers grabbed the territories of both empires?

I would like to hear more opinions on this.
The empires were quite different in structue and nature, as was their fall.

1. The ruling ethnic group in the Ottoman empire, were only a small fracrion of the population of the empire. No single ethnic group made up the majority of the Han empire. The main ethnic group of the Qing empire, the Han, made up the overwhelming majority of the Qing empire.

(The Manchu ruling the Qing were technically not Han, but they spoke and wrote in the Han language spoke by the overwhelming majority of their population, and the Manchu identified with Chinese culture, while retaining a memory of their own. The Turks of the Ottoman, spoke and wrote in Turkish, not the language or writing of the majority of their population. Han filled the vast majoirty of the government officds in the Qing.)

2. The Ottoman empire fell as a direct and immediate consequence of being on the losing side of a war. While its loss to Japan was a contributor to the Qing fall, the Qing did not fall immediately afterwarda.

3. The Chinese Republic managed to retain the vast majoirity of the Qing empire, only Tibet and a few others being lost. The Turks only retained Anatolia, losing the majority of the Othtoman empire.

4. The Ottoman were losing territory steadily, already have lost Greek, Bulgaria, and Egypt for all real purposes, and even Bosnia was being ruled by the Haspburgs on behalf of the Ottomans (supposedly). The Qing were not losing much territory, other than the loss of Tawain pefhaps, but most of their land retained intact - Tibet did not leave China's control after the Qing's fall.

But there were some similarities

a. Both had corrupt and inefficient governments that struggled, unsuccessfully, to modernize.

b. Both were taken over by nationalistic reformers who were heavily influenced by the west.
Bart Dale is offline  
Old February 22nd, 2017, 11:30 PM   #3

notgivenaway's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2015
From: UK
Posts: 4,428

Turks were and are never Arabs.

The Arab terrorities were vassals and protectorates. Similar to how the British Empire or French Empire functioned.

Most people in Anatolia were ethnic Turks and had been since before Osman became the first Sultan.

One thing is that Ottoman was a dominant power from Mehmed II's time to Suleiman. Qing was never a major world power. Yes, it had the biggest economy for a time, but then it was the Western powers who were more experienced traders and were opening up the global economy.
notgivenaway is offline  
Old February 23rd, 2017, 12:09 AM   #4

A Vietnamese's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2015
From: meo
Posts: 1,214

The Turks are muslim but they are hardly Arabians, people tend to forget that not every major muslim countries near middle east are Arabians.

The fallen of Qing empire was extremely complicated and not totally because of Japan similar to how Russian empire died. Losing war with Japan was only one of the plethora of reasons. The Manchu ruling class spoke Manchu language and enforced a lot of their culture on Han or whatever was there at the time.
A Vietnamese is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > General History

Tags
ching, empire, fall, ottoman, similarities



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
could Ching Shih of took down the British Empire CaptainArms500 European History 14 February 11th, 2014 04:11 PM
Was the Ottoman Empire bound to fall? Mohammed the Persian Middle Eastern and African History 310 February 12th, 2013 03:38 AM
The Fall of the Roman Empire / The Fall of the Eurozone Caracalla European History 4 May 25th, 2012 03:37 AM
Similarities between the Mongol Empire and Communist Russia lionmaster General History 20 July 23rd, 2011 03:26 AM
Arabic Contribution to the Fall of the Ottoman Empire Satuf Middle Eastern and African History 7 June 10th, 2011 12:41 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.