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Old October 11th, 2017, 04:35 AM   #1

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Were Normans still Vikings?


When reading about Viking expansion Normans are often quoted and they quote the Kingdoms of Italy and England too , so what'd be the difference?
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Old October 11th, 2017, 04:51 AM   #2

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Normans conquered England and Sicily, not Vikings.
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Old October 11th, 2017, 04:56 AM   #3

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naima View Post
When reading about Viking expansion Normans are often quoted and they quote the Kingdoms of Italy and England too , so what'd be the difference?
I am only now learning about this from this podcast: https://normancenturies.com

which I highly recommend.

My understanding of it is that it's like any other invasion turned occupation turned integration. Some fast changes, some slow changes, lots of violence, lots of culture mixing. "Vikings" can mean a lot of different people, right?

Are Americans still European?

-Dave K
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Old October 11th, 2017, 04:57 AM   #4

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Quote:
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Normans conquered England and Sicily, not Vikings.
Normans a subset of vikings or vice versa? (Serious question).
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Old October 11th, 2017, 05:00 AM   #5
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In the sources, Vikings are sometimes called Northmen because they came from northern Europe. Northmen was then shortened over time to Normans. So sometimes you will see the word Norman used interchangeably with Viking even though those Normans have nothing to do with Normandy.

In 911, a group of Vikings led by Rollo negotiated from King Charles the Simple of West Frankia (France) the right to live on the southern coast of the English Channel. This area became known as Normandy - land of the Normans. In 1066, one of Rollo's descendants, Duke William of Normandy, invaded and conquerred England thus beginning the Norman period in English history.

William spoke a form of French, not a Germanic language. By invading England amphibiously William did demonstrate some capability with boats, but he and his army were nowhere near the sailors of his Viking ancestors. I do not consider William of Normandy to be a Viking although some of his culture was still Viking in origin. For instance, the Norman kings of England introduced jury trials into English law. Juries are Viking in origin.
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Old October 11th, 2017, 05:04 AM   #6

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Quote:
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Normans a subset of vikings or vice versa? (Serious question).
Normans were Vikings [technically Vikings were all the raiders coming from North East Europe ... substantially the coasts of Scandinavia].

It’s just a matter of definition [and how the other Europeans called them].

This said, once they settled in a stable way, they were no more proper sea raiders … so that they were no more proper Vikings.
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Old October 11th, 2017, 05:07 AM   #7

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Normans were Vikings [technically Vikings were all the raiders coming from North East Europe ... substantially the coasts of Scandinavia].

Itís just a matter of definition [and how the other Europeans called them].

This said, once they settled in a stable way, they were no more proper sea raiders Ö so that they were no more proper Vikings.
That was my understanding. So I'm hoping Dan Howard will clarify his distinction.

Although if I combine your reasoning with his, perhaps "Vikings invaded, but Normans conquered." (That actually sounds kind of cool.)

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Old October 11th, 2017, 05:28 AM   #8

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I think it's correct.


Once they settled in Normandy, vowing loyalty to King Charles III they were no more Vikings, but they kept anyway the name that in the continent they gave them … “Normans” [and they gave the name to the region we call “Normandy”, for accuracy, not the other way round].

When the former Vikings expanded their influence to the isle of Great Britain they were “Normans”.
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Old October 11th, 2017, 05:34 AM   #9

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In short, no.

The Norse who settled in what would later be called Normandy were a minority that right from the start took Frankish wives or mistresses, including Rollo, who wed the daughter of a Frankish count. Because of that the Norse in Normandy very quickly went native.

By 1066, a century and a half after Rollo was named Duke of Normandy, the Normans had long since become culturally French.

If you're referring to the ethnic heritage of the Normans who crossed the Channel, it would have been a mixture of Scandinavian and French, much like William the Conqueror himself. Some of the "Normans" also weren't actually from Normandy. William's army included large contingents from Anjou, Brittany, Poitiers, and Flanders as well.

England was conquered by a French warlord leading an army that mostly French in composition.

Last edited by Scaeva; October 11th, 2017 at 05:37 AM.
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Old October 11th, 2017, 06:00 AM   #10

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The Normans spoke french, and traded longships for steeds. No, I don't think they were vikings by the time of the invasion.
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