Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > General History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

General History General History Forum - General history questions and discussions


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 25th, 2017, 06:43 AM   #21

Lucius's Avatar
the governed self
 
Joined: Jan 2007
From: Nebraska
Posts: 16,297

The number of Indo-European language-speakers was finite.

They did the best they could.
Lucius is online now  
Remove Ads
Old December 26th, 2017, 04:26 PM   #22

SufiMystic's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Oct 2016
From: On a magic carpet
Posts: 692

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naima View Post
as for Arabia it was just a big desert.
That's not entirely accurate...

Say hello to Salalah, Oman:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Just a big desert, as you said...
SufiMystic is offline  
Old December 27th, 2017, 07:54 AM   #23
Historian
 
Joined: Aug 2015
From: Chalfont, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,163

Quote:
Originally Posted by SufiMystic View Post
That's not entirely accurate...

Say hello to Salalah, Oman:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Just a big desert, as you said...
Oman is part of what the ancient Romans called Arabia Felix ("Happy Arabia") and not Arabia Deserta ("Desert Arabia"). And I think that inhabitants of Salalah, Omen should sometimes stop and give thanks to Allah that they can call themselves Happy Arabians instead of Desert Arabians.
MAGolding is offline  
Old December 27th, 2017, 11:18 AM   #24

SufiMystic's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Oct 2016
From: On a magic carpet
Posts: 692

Yes indeed! Lol.

There are green areas in Yemen too...

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by SufiMystic; December 27th, 2017 at 11:20 AM.
SufiMystic is offline  
Old December 27th, 2017, 06:55 PM   #25

Devdas's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Apr 2015
From: India
Posts: 3,535

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flesh View Post
Okay. I thought it was an Indo-Aryan state. My bad. So what do you think was mostly responsible for the IE-ization of Maharashtra?



It's a physical barrier still. Physical barriers limit linguistic contact. I mentioned the Vindhyas as the region that differentiates North India from South India. It isn't an impenetrable barrier, but still a barrier. I think if it weren't there, then North Indians would have an easier time travelling down south. And more land could have become IE-ized, I don't know for sure though.
Vindhya ranges forms the border of Uttar Pradesh(speak Hindi) and Madhya Pradesh(speaks Hindi). It don't seem that Vindhya ranges were ever been a linguistic barrier.
Devdas is offline  
Old December 29th, 2017, 07:39 AM   #26
Scholar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 547

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flesh View Post
Okay. I thought it was an Indo-Aryan state. My bad. So what do you think was mostly responsible for the IE-ization of Maharashtra?



It's a physical barrier still. Physical barriers limit linguistic contact. I mentioned the Vindhyas as the region that differentiates North India from South India. It isn't an impenetrable barrier, but still a barrier. I think if it weren't there, then North Indians would have an easier time travelling down south. And more land could have become IE-ized, I don't know for sure though.
I highly doubt that the Vindhyas are a barrier for the spread of IE languages considering the fact that Maharashtra, Odisha and Chattisgarh are IE speaking regions but neighbouring regions like Karnataka and Telangana are Dravidian speaking regions.
Theseus is offline  
Old December 30th, 2017, 02:55 PM   #27
Archivist
 
Joined: Dec 2017
From: America
Posts: 132

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devdas View Post
Satavahana and Andhra are synonym of each other. Telugu people also refer themselves as Andhra that's why their state is referred as Andhra Pradesh aka Land of the Andhras/Telugus.

Vindya ranges is not a linguistic division but rather a division of Indo-Gangetic plains and Deccan plateau, Madhya Pradesh, Chattisgarh, Maharashtra, Goa all are IE speaking.
Maharashtri Prakrit was the official language of the Satavahana Empire:

Marathi is descended from the Prakit dialect Maharashtri (literally, the "Language of the Empire"), which was the official language of the Satavahana Empire in the early centuries of the Common Era. Under the patronage of the Satavahana Empire, Maharashtri became the most widespread Prakrit of its time, and also dominated the literary culture amongst the three "Dramatic" Prakrits of the time, Maharashtri, Sauraseni and Magadhi. A version of Maharashtri, called the Jaina Maharashtri, also was employed to write sections of Jain scripture. The Satavahana Emperor Hala's Sattasai, an anthology of over 700 love poems, has been established as the most famous work of literature in Maharashtri. Maharashtri evolved during the 15th and 16th centuries into Marathi.

BhashaIndia :: Marathi

Last edited by Dzmeka; December 30th, 2017 at 03:11 PM.
Dzmeka is offline  
Old January 2nd, 2018, 07:39 PM   #28

Dreamhunter's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2012
From: Malaysia
Posts: 6,425
Blog Entries: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theseus View Post
The Indo Europeans conquered the major part of Europe, Persia, Central Asia and Northern parts of South Asia and were able to change the native languages to an Indo European language during the ancient period. But why did the Indo European languages not spread to Arabia, South India and North Africa despite of the close proximity
Same reasons that deterred & dissuaded the Mongols many millennia later, I wud be inclined to believe. Mainly the terrain & the climate. The heat in North Africa, heat + desert in Arabia, heat & thick jungle in south India.

They fared badly against the Egyptians at Ain Jalut in Palestine. Ditto against the Vietnamese in Vietnam. They wud hv done even worse in South India, had they tried.

As for the ancient IE, it's almost obvious that they tended to avoid the sweltering centre of the tropics.
Dreamhunter is offline  
Old January 6th, 2018, 01:12 PM   #29
Scholar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 547

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamhunter View Post
Same reasons that deterred & dissuaded the Mongols many millennia later, I wud be inclined to believe. Mainly the terrain & the climate. The heat in North Africa, heat + desert in Arabia, heat & thick jungle in south India.

They fared badly against the Egyptians at Ain Jalut in Palestine. Ditto against the Vietnamese in Vietnam. They wud hv done even worse in South India, had they tried.

As for the ancient IE, it's almost obvious that they tended to avoid the sweltering centre of the tropics.
The Telangana and Karnataka regions have the same terrain as Maharashtra but Telangana and Karnataka are Dravidian speaking regions but Maharashtra is a IE speaking region. And its not like that IE people did not try to enter South India. Sri Lanka is a mostly IE speaking region and Sri Lanka is south to South India. Some ancient South Indian literature like the Sangam texts celebrate Dravidian kings who had defeated Arya kings. So IE people definitely tried to enter South India in large groups.
Theseus is offline  
Old January 6th, 2018, 01:22 PM   #30
Scholar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 547

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzmeka View Post
Maharashtri Prakrit was the official language of the Satavahana Empire:

Marathi is descended from the Prakit dialect Maharashtri (literally, the "Language of the Empire"), which was the official language of the Satavahana Empire in the early centuries of the Common Era. Under the patronage of the Satavahana Empire, Maharashtri became the most widespread Prakrit of its time, and also dominated the literary culture amongst the three "Dramatic" Prakrits of the time, Maharashtri, Sauraseni and Magadhi. A version of Maharashtri, called the Jaina Maharashtri, also was employed to write sections of Jain scripture. The Satavahana Emperor Hala's Sattasai, an anthology of over 700 love poems, has been established as the most famous work of literature in Maharashtri. Maharashtri evolved during the 15th and 16th centuries into Marathi.

BhashaIndia :: Marathi
The Satavahana Kings were probably Dravidian speaking people as they patronized Dravidian languages and issued Dravidian records. On the other hand their successors the Vakataka rulers were probably IE speaking people as they never issued any Dravidian records despite of the fact that their Dynasty was established after the fall of the Satavahana Dynasty
Theseus is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > General History

Tags
africa, arabia, europeans, india, indo, north, resist, south



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Did South India have martial traditions on par with North? Eifandil Asian History 102 January 6th, 2017 01:18 AM
Satyaputras:The earliest Indo Aryanizers of south India? Vajra Asian History 44 April 12th, 2016 06:36 AM
Why did the Muslim empires in North Africa not go deep south across the contient greatstreetwarrior Middle Eastern and African History 87 February 5th, 2015 03:41 PM
How far south along the Atlantic coastline in North Africa did the Romans occupy jrbartlett Ancient History 3 April 18th, 2013 12:45 AM
why didn't eastern europeans resist soviet occupation after WW2 irishcrusader95 European History 152 January 24th, 2013 04:22 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.