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Old November 14th, 2017, 04:19 AM   #21
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Romānia comes from romān (not vice-versa).
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Old November 14th, 2017, 10:26 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by maTiasddsm View Post
Hey Ivar.
Thanks for reading the thread.
With all my respect. Don't you poles call the country "Polska"??
All the theories you brought seem to be explaining the english word "Poland" or the spanish word "Polonia" but not the polish name "Polska".
Grammatically Polska is an adjective. The question is what the root was, the most common theory is pole "field", which is cognate with polana "glade", płaski "flat", and which originally meant wide, open, flat space. So, Polak (Pole) would be a person living open land, instead of forests or mountains, and Polska ziemia would mean something like "flatland".

Also there are numerous other similar region names in the area, for example Pomorze, Polabia, Polesie, Podole, Pogórze, all formed with prefix po-. Pomorze along the sea, Polabia along the Elbe, Polesie forested land,Podole lowland (in the opposition to the mountains in the south), Pogórze highland. If we assume that the same prefix is also present in Polska, then the root would be Lska. This consonant cluster cannot appear at the beginning of the word, it could have a vowel which was later dropped, with the potential original word being Laska, which in turn is an adjective from Lach.

The theory of Bolonia coming from Bolesław's name is in my opinion unlikely, as it is highly irregular for /b/ to change into /p/. Possibly a corruption through folk etymology, but would people really forget that they and their land is named after one of their greatest leaders? Sounds improbable. The spelling conventions were not regular back in the Middle Ages, one name could be written in different ways, another example very similar to this one is Prussians, which were also written as Bruzzi. So, in my opinion it is more likely that it's just a lack of systematic spelling and not an evidence of sound change.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 11:12 AM   #23

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Someone decided to unite a bunch of states in North America.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 11:40 AM   #24

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Quote:
Originally Posted by maTiasddsm View Post
Hey Ivar.
Thanks for reading the thread.
With all my respect. Don't you poles call the country "Polska"??
All the theories you brought seem to be explaining the english word "Poland" or the spanish word "Polonia" but not the polish name "Polska".
"Polska" is simply a Polish translation "Polonia". Generally "Polonia" was used most commonly since Latin was used as an official language in Polanduntil the partitions I believe. As a matter of fact Lithuania made Polish the official language in the law courts before mainland Poland. The main root word is "Pol", the "-ska" is simply a feminine suffix like in last names. For example the town of Koniecpol is the root of Hetman Stanislaw Koncpolski's last name (simply add the "-ski"). Of course when referring to the Polish language we usually say "język Polski". The ending chances but The root "Pol" is what we're looking at here.
"Polonia" is still used today in Polish to refer to large Polish communities in other countries.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 11:57 AM   #25
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Someone decided to unite a bunch of states in North America.
Nah a bunch of states in North America decided to join in federation.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 01:20 PM   #26
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Excellent posts, thanks Ivar
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Old November 14th, 2017, 02:11 PM   #27

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What about regional names?

I live in "Piedmont" [real name: Piemonte] which literally means [in our dialect] "ai piedi dei monti" ... "at the foot of the mountains". And we live under the highest picks of the Alps.
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Old November 15th, 2017, 01:51 PM   #28

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Originally Posted by Ivar View Post
Poland, has been long thought to be derived from the tribe of Polanians. This was the explanation by chronicler Jan Dlugosz (15 century). This theory has been challenged often since. Artur Szrejter for one argues that there is no archeological evidence to support such a tribe in that area at that time.
Other chroniclers such as Godzislaw Baszko (13th century, I think) explained that the name derives from the North Pole (polo arctico), perhaps this may have something to do with the earlier Ibrahim Ibn Iakub referring to Mesco (Mieszko) as "The King of the North". Baszko also says the name could have also derived from a castle in Pomerania called "Polan".

Now, before adopting christianity most chronicles when discussing the Poles (as we know them today) used the term "Lachy". This was derived from a legendary founder of the state and/or tribe - Lach. In the book, Panstwo Ksiazat z Rodu Piastow by Krystyna Lukasiewicz the author suggests that today's "Poland" may have been a commonly misspelled name that had originally been modeled after Poland's first Christian king, Boleslaw I Chrobry. She mentions here that Thietmar, who had written a fair bit on Poland often sometimes used "p" instead of "b" or "s" instead of "z". Could the original form of Polonia been Bolonia?

Bolemia and dux Bolanorum was first used by Wipon (German chronicler, 11 century) with regards to Poland. Also, Bolemia was also used by emperor Henry III in a document regarding some payment in Poland (domina Richeza Bolemiae quondam regina; referring to Mieszko II wife. In later translation Bolemia was simply reprinted as Polonia).

It should be mentioned that during Mieszko's time the tribe which he is ruler of was, according to Widukind called Licicaviki, not Polanie. The former does have a hint of the "Lachy" derivitive. Could it be that the church decided to re name the newly christian state by giving its name after their first king? Makes sense to me, but it is just a theory.

There is interesting ethymology row connected with name Poland and it is related to agriculture and methods of Early Slavs of cultivating ground by burning forest and creating fertile land for fields.

Pole/Palje - field, Palit' - to burn, Polana/Paljana - clearing (in forest propably after burning), Polano - burnt tree
Then agriculture unit was called O-pole.
Taking into consideration that almost all Slavic tribes of the region took names of geographic circumstances - Polanie simply means people of the fields (or clearings).
Interesting that early Kiev tribe was also called Polanie in opposition to Drevlanje living in neighbourhood (people of wood).
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Old November 15th, 2017, 07:00 PM   #29

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukaszrzepinski View Post
There is interesting ethymology row connected with name Poland and it is related to agriculture and methods of Early Slavs of cultivating ground by burning forest and creating fertile land for fields.

Pole/Palje - field, Palit' - to burn, Polana/Paljana - clearing (in forest propably after burning), Polano - burnt tree
Then agriculture unit was called O-pole.
Taking into consideration that almost all Slavic tribes of the region took names of geographic circumstances - Polanie simply means people of the fields (or clearings).
Interesting that early Kiev tribe was also called Polanie in opposition to Drevlanje living in neighbourhood (people of wood).
All that may be fine and well, however, there are contradictory elements to this theory because some archeologists argue that there is no evidence to support there being this tribe in the greater Poland area during Mieszko's time. Also, in the chronicles they don't mention Mieszko's tribe being called "Polanie" but "Licicaviki".

Here is a long video of Artur Szrejter having a little forum with some history enthusiasts at some Pub, anywho... The part you want to tune in is 1:40:00.

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Old November 17th, 2017, 09:43 AM   #30

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpinLuke View Post
What about regional names?

I live in "Piedmont" [real name: Piemonte] which literally means [in our dialect] "ai piedi dei monti" ... "at the foot of the mountains". And we live under the highest picks of the Alps.
Nice name. I amaze they use the French name in English rather than the Italian name. It's probably due to the proximity. There is no English version of this name.
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