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Old November 15th, 2017, 07:35 AM   #21

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You need to ignore how he describes particles, space, the orbits of the stars, their interaction with incorporeal entities in complex ways, etc., all of which easily match Newton and Einstein. Plato simply didn't mathematise his knowledge like them, most likely because he thought it wasn't necessary.
Not ignoring that at all, but with regard to science something is not definite knowledge when left vague. Demonstrating mathematically that a certain specifically stated (not vaguely described) relationship is actually true is in fact one of the hardest steps involved. Proving the claim experimentally afterwards can be equally difficult. Newton and Einstein at least carried out the first step here, later experimentalists carried out the next step to verify the truth of their theories. Plato, for all his genius, really did not engage in either step in this process.
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Old November 15th, 2017, 07:48 AM   #22

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Newton was the first theoretical physicist in the modern sense of the word. He provided a mathematically rigorous theory, made predictions based on it and experimentally tested them.

So he made more impact than Einstein by default, there was nothing there to really compete with.

IMHO Einstein made more heavy lifting in terms of intellectual effort and achievement.
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Old November 15th, 2017, 11:22 AM   #23
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Einsteins most famous work was probably his equation E=mc^2. That equation led to the atomic bomb. other noteworthy ideas
-Atomic clock
-Speed of light is absolute
-Time flow variable
-photons
-reinterpreted newtons gravity theory. Now is commonly accepted.

These simple ideas led to atomic bombs, gps, electromagnetic, etc etc. modern physics.

Newton
-The 3 laws of newton
-helped explain the universe.
-reflecting telescope
-his theory of gravity was a pretty big deal then.

Newtons achievements helped form the basis calculus and laws of motion and gravity.

Im sure there are other discoveries for both men, but these are just those I can remember.

Who had a bigger impact? Probably depends on what you want.

Last edited by TheMusicMan; November 15th, 2017 at 11:41 AM.
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Old November 15th, 2017, 12:45 PM   #24

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Physics is among my cultural hobbies.

What is fascinating of relativity is that it describes something we cannot imagine.

The basic intuition is that all is relative to something ... to what? To the velocity of light which is an absolute reference.

Someone could wonder: why cannot I accelerate to 1,000,000,000 km per second?

Because it's impossible.

Why?

If Force is Mass x Acceleration, we can infer that Acceleration is Force / Mass and Mass is Force / Acceleration.

But if the Mass increases while the speed increases ... you will need more and more force to accelerate.

The final result is that we would need an infinite force to accelerate to the speed of light and this is impossible.
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Old November 15th, 2017, 01:10 PM   #25
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Physics is among my cultural hobbies.

What is fascinating of relativity is that it describes something we cannot imagine.

The basic intuition is that all is relative to something ... to what? To the velocity of light which is an absolute reference.

Someone could wonder: why cannot I accelerate to 1,000,000,000 km per second?

Because it's impossible.

Why?

If Force is Mass x Acceleration, we can infer that Acceleration is Force / Mass and Mass is Force / Acceleration.

But if the Mass increases while the speed increases ... you will need more and more force to accelerate.

The final result is that we would need an infinite force to accelerate to the speed of light and this is impossible.
wouldn't impulse take effect? You wouldn't need as big of a force if you have longer time. right?
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Old November 15th, 2017, 01:21 PM   #26

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wouldn't impulse take effect? You wouldn't need as big of a force if you have longer time. right?
This is right only if you are in the field of not relativistic velocities.

Think to our glorious probes [American probes] flying out of the Solar System. They are traveling so slow not to be affected by relativity.

And ... while you get close to the speed of light you can hope less and less on time ... since time slows down up to stop ... so you won't have time.
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Old November 15th, 2017, 01:24 PM   #27

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But ... let's think to an ideal experiment.

You've got all the time you want.

Fantastic ... anyway, while you get close to the speed of light your relativistic mass increases [you become more and more fat!]. You will reach a point when you won't be able to collect enough energy to keep on accelerating since the mass will be too huge [the mass is infinite at the speed of light ... better ... undefined].
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Old November 15th, 2017, 01:39 PM   #28
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But ... let's think to an ideal experiment.

You've got all the time you want.

Fantastic ... anyway, while you get close to the speed of light your relativistic mass increases [you become more and more fat!]. You will reach a point when you won't be able to collect enough energy to keep on accelerating since the mass will be too huge [the mass is infinite at the speed of light ... better ... undefined].
not even if I brought a lot of protein bars? (disclaimer, I enjoy science, but wasn't big on my physics teacher, so I didn't pay attention in that class, hahaha)
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Old November 15th, 2017, 03:45 PM   #29
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Einsteins most famous work was probably his equation E=mc^2. That equation led to the atomic bomb. other noteworthy ideas
-Atomic clock
-Speed of light is absolute
-Time flow variable
-photons
-reinterpreted newtons gravity theory. Now is commonly accepted.

These simple ideas led to atomic bombs, gps, electromagnetic, etc etc. modern physics.

Newton
-The 3 laws of newton
-helped explain the universe.
-reflecting telescope
-his theory of gravity was a pretty big deal then.

Newtons achievements helped form the basis calculus and laws of motion and gravity.

Im sure there are other discoveries for both men, but these are just those I can remember.

Who had a bigger impact? Probably depends on what you want.
I always have this joking argument with my friends about whether Newton is a mathematician, or a physicist, but ultimately Newton's Method (or approximation for roots) is something that at least start the foundation of many branches of learning. I think everyone has to learn that in college.
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Old November 15th, 2017, 04:05 PM   #30

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Originally Posted by Ighayere View Post
Not ignoring that at all, but with regard to science something is not definite knowledge when left vague. Demonstrating mathematically that a certain specifically stated (not vaguely described) relationship is actually true is in fact one of the hardest steps involved. Proving the claim experimentally afterwards can be equally difficult. Newton and Einstein at least carried out the first step here, later experimentalists carried out the next step to verify the truth of their theories. Plato, for all his genius, really did not engage in either step in this process.
Yep it is like saying Genesis gives an accurate description of the Big Bang.

Imo Einstein's influence is and was much bigger than Newton in the field of science (the rest is utterly irrelevant). Newton's theories are for highschool physics and some are flat out refuted (which is imo a good thing as it meant his theories were falsifiable). Einstein (and other physicist from his day that are imo often ignored) started a real revolution in physics (and chemistry) and he continued on by postulating new grounded theories and wasn't afraid of it being falsified.

With Newton you can launch a rocket away from earth (or rather calculate how much speed it needs), with Einsten (and the others from the 10s to 30s+Maxwell's groupies) you can make it land on the moon and see it on your tv.
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