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Old November 20th, 2017, 01:56 PM   #31
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If Europe is the one that colonised the world, it's simply because it was lucky it had America right besides and could attack it by surprise, allowing it to sack its resources and progress that way.
In my post earlier I mentioned 'geography' as being one of the elements that created the synergy which lead to Western Europe to gain a lead that assured it could take over large parts of the world with impunity.

As a Indian if I asked you what does the the colonization and subjugation of India tell you? Please leave lady luck out of it. India had greater population then entire Europe yet laid itself flat like red carpet to the British colonizers. It tells me the British had vastly greater administrative, military, political lead on the Indians that few of them steam rolled across the entire India with almost total impunity.

That tells us about the relative technologicl, political, administrative superiority that Britain enjoyed over the native which is why step after step Britain prevailed until they hit the Pakhtun tribes of Sulaiman Mountains and the Khyber Pass.
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Old November 20th, 2017, 01:56 PM   #32

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Where are going to get mired in this thing about 'colonialism'. We must accept that variety of factors compounded Western Europe on the road to progress. That gave it the lead to be able to conquer/colonise. To be colonized was absolute proof of being backward. To be the colonizer was absolute proof of being ahead. It's that simple.
No, it's not that simple. America, where colonialism started, only got conquered for the same reason Asians got conquered by the Mongols, which is that Europeans attacked completely by surprise. That conquest is what allowed Europe to get rich in resources and so get ahead of the rest of the world. Of course, some advances were necessary for colonialism to occur, but this is something civilisations other than Europe could have done. Europe simply happened to be the one that did colonialism first, out of luck of finding an entire continent right besides it.

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And the entire Asia [China/sub-continent/Middle East] could not match the ship making skills of Western Europeans by 1600s.
Which, you know, is post-colonisation of America.
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Old November 20th, 2017, 01:59 PM   #33

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Originally Posted by Bullit View Post
In my post earlier I mentioned 'geography' as being one of the elements that created the synergy which lead to Western Europe to gain a lead that assured it could take over large parts of the world with impunity.

As a Indian if I asked you what does the the colonization and subjugation of India tell you? Please leave lady luck out of it. India had greater population then entire Europe yet laid itself flat like red carpet to the British colonizers. It tells me the British had vastly greater administrative, military, political lead on the Indians that few of them steam rolled across the entire India with almost total impunity.

That tells us about the relative technologicl, political, administrative superiority that Britain enjoyed over the native which is why step after step Britain prevailed until they hit the Pakhtun tribes of Sulaiman Mountains and the Khyber Pass.
The subjugation of India by Britain happened after Europe had technologically gotten ahead of the rest of the world thanks to three centuries of colonialism in America and parts of Asia and Africa.
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Old November 20th, 2017, 02:00 PM   #34

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One wonders then why the people who had those same resources did not invent 1/10 of what Europeans invented.
One also wonders what has colonialism to do with Newton, Galileo, Copernicus and the myriad of Europeans scientists that are famous worldwide.
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Old November 20th, 2017, 02:08 PM   #35
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No, it's not that simple. America, where colonialism started, only got conquered for the same reason Asians got conquered by the Mongols, which is that Europeans attacked completely by surprise. That conquest is what allowed Europe to get rich in resources and so get ahead of the rest of the world. Of course, some advances were necessary for colonialism to occur, but this is something civilisations other than Europe could have done. Europe simply happened to be the one that did colonialism first, out of luck of finding an entire continent right besides it.
Which, you know, is post-colonisation of America.
Okay. Okay. You keep jumping to this America thing. The distance from -

(i) Japan/Korea/Manchuria, Asia to Vancouver, Americas is 4,400 miles.
(ii) Spain, Portugal, Europe to Cuba, Americas is 4,400 miles
(iii) Cochin, India to Perth, Australia is just 3,500 miles.


Now please do tell me who or what exactly stopped Japanese, Chinese to land in Vancouver and colonize Americas before Colombus even learnt how to a take a pee?

Or tell me what stopped the Indians to hopping over to Perth, Austriala and opening Indian take outs everywhere for the yet to arrive hungry convicts from Britain?

Bad luck perhaps?
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Old November 20th, 2017, 02:09 PM   #36
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Moaist^You can say that they have that ability, but what is the evidence of them using that to stop Spain from conquering the Philippines which is obviously within the territorial sphere of influence of China. Didn't the Chinese burned their vessels instead of using them? Wasn't that foolish and an evidence of degeneration of logic to use them?

The Mongols were simply stopped by those castles in Western Europe. No, the Spaniards were building larger ships because they were Spaniards and not the conquered.
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Old November 20th, 2017, 02:11 PM   #37
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Good, because I didn't say crossing the Atlantic was luck, I said finding a continent right besides Europe was luck.
It was founded because the Spaniards crossed it. Why not the Algerians or even the Morocans were able to do it?
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Old November 20th, 2017, 02:17 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maoistic View Post
No, it's not that simple. America, where colonialism started, only got conquered for the same reason Asians got conquered by the Mongols, which is that Europeans attacked completely by surprise. That conquest is what allowed Europe to get rich in resources and so get ahead of the rest of the world. Of course, some advances were necessary for colonialism to occur, but this is something civilisations other than Europe could have done. Europe simply happened to be the one that did colonialism first, out of luck of finding an entire continent right besides it.
Well don't want to comment on other items but the Mongols did not take the Chinese by surprise. Jin / Song was not surprised that they were hit by their northern neighbors. They were ill prepared for the Mongols? Sure, but surprised?
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Old November 20th, 2017, 02:18 PM   #39
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One wonders then why the people who had those same resources did not invent 1/10 of what Europeans invented.
One also wonders what has colonialism to do with Newton, Galileo, Copernicus and the myriad of Europeans scientists that are famous worldwide.
While your pondering that enigma do please also ponder on another enigma. At the dawn of human history just four rivers on the vast face of earth became the cradles of human civilization? What were the peoples of the rest of the vast globe doing?


Trying to figure how to light a fire?



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Old November 20th, 2017, 02:26 PM   #40

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Okay. Okay. You keep jumping to this America thing. The distance from -

(i) Japan/Korea/Manchuria, Asia to Vancouver, Americas is 4,400 miles.
(ii) Spain, Portugal, Europe to Cuba, Americas is 4,400 miles
(iii) Cochin, India to Perth, Australia is just 3,500 miles.


Now please do tell me who or what exactly stopped Japanese, Chinese to land in Vancouver and colonize Americas before Colombus even learnt how to a take a pee?

Or tell me what stopped the Indians to hopping over to Perth, Austriala and opening Indian take outs everywhere for the yet to arrive hungry convicts from Britain?

Bad luck perhaps?
They simply didn't want to expand, nor need to. The reason why Europe funded Columbus was because they were being pushed out by the Ottomans. Neither the Indians nor the Chinese were in a similar situation and were more stable, thus they didn't need to expand like Europeans.
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