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Old January 13th, 2018, 03:31 PM   #271

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Ah, I see.

Well, I think the ultimatum issued to Serbia would not have been accepted by any country in the world, but then it was designed for that result.

That said, Serbia accepted all points but one.

The issue being Austrian police allowed into Serbia to conduct an investigation, which broadly meant that Serbia would become subservient to the Austrian government. Which country in their right mind would accept that?

I suppose the Austrians got what they deserved when the Serbians proved a tougher nut to crack than expected.

As for the Black Hand, they were about as connected to the Serbian government as the IRA were to the Irish government. Some people knew some people, naturally, but the connection was loose in the extreme and not state backed in terms of any sort of pursued policy. I'd imagine a British invasion of the Republic of Ireland in the 1970s wouldn't have been supported by anyone in the world.

The real issue for Austria-Hungary was a patchwork, multi-national empire with some sections increasingly seeking independence. It was falling apart.
You should read the “ultimatum” before spelling this pious claptrap. No Austria did not demanded that. They only demanded to be allowed to send a delegation to Belgrade to oversee the investigation and prosecution of the conspirators who had murdered the archduke.
The Austria-Hungary empire was not falling apart. It could have only fall if the Serbs were plotting to pull apart their empire. Which was their ambition to gather the South Slavs into a united nation where Serbia would sit at the head of the table. And that happened with Yugoslavia.
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Old January 13th, 2018, 04:16 PM   #272

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You should read the “ultimatum” before spelling this pious claptrap. No Austria did not demanded that. They only demanded to be allowed to send a delegation to Belgrade to oversee the investigation and prosecution of the conspirators who had murdered the archduke.
The Austria-Hungary empire was not falling apart. It could have only fall if the Serbs were plotting to pull apart their empire. Which was their ambition to gather the South Slavs into a united nation where Serbia would sit at the head of the table. And that happened with Yugoslavia.
How frequently did France allow foreign agents and policemen to operate freely on French soil, having the unrestricted right to arrest French citizens, when no proved guilt of the aforementioned French citizens was proved during the course of the long 19th century?
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Old January 13th, 2018, 04:44 PM   #273

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Originally Posted by Jaquet View Post
You should read the “ultimatum” before spelling this pious claptrap. No Austria did not demanded that. They only demanded to be allowed to send a delegation to Belgrade to oversee the investigation and prosecution of the conspirators who had murdered the archduke.
The Austria-Hungary empire was not falling apart. It could have only fall if the Serbs were plotting to pull apart their empire. Which was their ambition to gather the South Slavs into a united nation where Serbia would sit at the head of the table. And that happened with Yugoslavia.
Well, Austria should have finished the war they started, rather than having a nation of less than 6 million defeat them three times? Then Mackensen was sent to raise the standard of professionalism in 1915.
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Old January 13th, 2018, 05:18 PM   #274

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The real shock for the Austrians was their defeat in December.
The French had re-supplied the Serbs and it seems that the Austrian military discounted any available intelligence reports that the Serbs were capable of hitting back.

The Montenegrin militia's performance on Old Style Orthodox Christmas (Jan '15) versus the Austrians also should be mentioned in passing.

... and the Montenegrins' battle with Austria was in Jan. '16, rather.
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