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Old December 29th, 2017, 04:05 PM   #41

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Originally Posted by Divinespark View Post
Thatís because people keep up the erroneous myth that history is cyclical, so they search for a present connection
Yep, I despise that
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Old December 29th, 2017, 09:30 PM   #42

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Even if there were no FDR and Hitler, India would still have gotten its independence. The two world wars most likely delayed it. A key reason for the Labor party's win in Britain was Indians clamoring for Independence and the British generally supporting it. One should keep in mind that world was changing, and colonialism was going out of fashion.
So, what was Gandhi and Nehru's contribution to the Indian Independence except to agree to the vivisection of India and look passively at the slaughter and rape of Hindus in Pakistan and Muslims in India ?
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Old December 29th, 2017, 09:37 PM   #43

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.
Certainly Ghandi hallowed position could be taken down a notch or two

Nehru could be getting a bit of a trashing too ,
he followed the textbook line of British educated post colonials with a severe case of "great man "syndrome and economic ignoramuses
must be something in oxbridge waters

to some credit to him India remained a vibrant boisterous democracy

@ Kevinmeath
"But in that period of time a 'good King' was supposed to be a warlord his contemporaries actually thought of him as a great King"

that's a very valid point , present day opinions are of limited value to judge personage in the past , the longer the distance , the more circumspect one should be
Nehru alongwith his communist defence minister Krishna Menon were totally responsible for the devastating defeat of the Indian Army at the hands of the PLA in 1962.
Nehru was solely responsible for the mess in the case of accession of Jammu and Kashmir to India, by rushing to the UNO, while the Indian Army was on the verge of clearing the tribal aggressors and the Pakistan army from the Kashmir valley.
And as regards Gandhi, he was a weirdo. He tried for many nights, sleeping naked with his young niece, trying to find out whether he could control his sexual feelings ! While he says he could control, his young niece got mad ! Nehru the fool was also compelled to write to Gandhi to stop persisting with this experiment !
And Gandhi went on a fast unto death because the Govt.of India did not release Rs.550 million to the newly independent Pakistan, as per partition terms agreed upon. He conveniently forgot that the Indian Army was trying to clear Pakistan Army from the valley of Kashmir at the very time. Eventually, Nehru paid that amount while the war was still going on.

Last edited by rvsakhadeo; December 29th, 2017 at 09:54 PM.
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Old December 30th, 2017, 09:12 AM   #44

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And as regards Gandhi, he was a weirdo. He tried for many nights, sleeping naked with his young niece, trying to find out whether he could control his sexual feelings !
Really? Hitler was very fond of his niece "Geli Raubal". I read one account in a book "Hitler - A Pictorial Biography" that he had a great sense of wellbeing when she was near him. Hitler absolutely loved her to death. She was so sick of him being a control freak that she took her own life...Or did Hitler fly into a rage and murder her?

Either way, that's what turned Hitler into a vegetarian.
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Old December 30th, 2017, 12:13 PM   #45
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So, what was Gandhi and Nehru's contribution to the Indian Independence except to agree to the vivisection of India and look passively at the slaughter and rape of Hindus in Pakistan and Muslims in India ?
Gandhi's and Nehru's continued freedom efforts were key to changing European opinion away from supporting colonialism. They used to make news across the globe. For example, that's how FDR got influenced.

What steps would you have taken to prevent the partition of India, especially when Muslims (some 25% of population concentrated in two regions) were determined to get their own country, no matter what? Let us hear.

Last edited by kandal; December 30th, 2017 at 12:39 PM.
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Old December 30th, 2017, 12:28 PM   #46

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...

Either way, that's what turned Hitler into a vegetarian.
See also - https://micahbooks.com/hitlers-vegetarianism-31.html
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Old December 30th, 2017, 06:05 PM   #47

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Gandhi's and Nehru's continued freedom efforts were key to changing European opinion away from supporting colonialism. They used to make news across the globe. For example, that's how FDR got influenced.

What steps would you have taken to prevent the partition of India, especially when Muslims (some 25% of population concentrated in two regions) were determined to get their own country, no matter what? Let us hear.
Are you not getting off track with the sort of comments you are making ?
You are suggesting that Nehru and Gandhi were engaged in a Public Relations effort without which Europeans ( ? ) would have not changed their opinion regarding ' supporting ' colonialism ? And that FDR was influenced by Nehru and Gandhi's PR efforts ? I thought that Europeans in 1920s and 1930s were more concerned with Nazism and Fascism, and Communism plus their economic difficulties, if at all and in any case did not much know let alone care about India. Roosevelt was a democrat and idealist all on his own and was not bothered by PR efforts by the Nazis. To say that he was influenced by the two Indians will be insulting his intelligence.
I would welcome your comments on my post no.43 above.

Last edited by rvsakhadeo; December 30th, 2017 at 06:55 PM.
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Old December 31st, 2017, 06:36 AM   #48
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Are you not getting off track with the sort of comments you are making ?
You are suggesting that Nehru and Gandhi were engaged in a Public Relations effort without which Europeans ( ? ) would have not changed their opinion regarding ' supporting ' colonialism ? And that FDR was influenced by Nehru and Gandhi's PR efforts ? I thought that Europeans in 1920s and 1930s were more concerned with Nazism and Fascism, and Communism plus their economic difficulties, if at all and in any case did not much know let alone care about India. Roosevelt was a democrat and idealist all on his own and was not bothered by PR efforts by the Nazis. To say that he was influenced by the two Indians will be insulting his intelligence.
I would welcome your comments on my post no.43 above.
Whether one wants to believe or not, Gandhi, Indian struggle for independence, Nehru and so on were well known across the globe at the time. May be Nehru less so. One must note what world figures like Albert Einstein said of him: "Generations to come, it may well be, will scarce believe that such a man as this one ever in flesh and blood walked upon this Earth.Ē
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Originally Posted by rvsakhadeo View Post
Nehru alongwith his communist defence minister Krishna Menon were totally responsible for the devastating defeat of the Indian Army at the hands of the PLA in 1962.
Nehru was solely responsible for the mess in the case of accession of Jammu and Kashmir to India, by rushing to the UNO, while the Indian Army was on the verge of clearing the tribal aggressors and the Pakistan army from the Kashmir valley.
And as regards Gandhi, he was a weirdo. He tried for many nights, sleeping naked with his young niece, trying to find out whether he could control his sexual feelings ! While he says he could control, his young niece got mad ! Nehru the fool was also compelled to write to Gandhi to stop persisting with this experiment !
And Gandhi went on a fast unto death because the Govt.of India did not release Rs.550 million to the newly independent Pakistan, as per partition terms agreed upon. He conveniently forgot that the Indian Army was trying to clear Pakistan Army from the valley of Kashmir at the very time. Eventually, Nehru paid that amount while the war was still going on.
India wouldn't do any better even today against the Chinese army. India should have been more aggressive in Kashmir but hindsight is always 20/20.

One can find personality defects in great men, but that doesn't diminish their stature, because their goodness overpowers such weaknesses. That goes for Gandhi too. There are hardly any Gandhi haters in the world, but they are the ones who laser focus on such things. Usual Gandhi haters are Pakistani Muslim extremists (ex. Jinnah) and Hindu extremists.

You didn't answer this question of mine. Please do: What steps would you have taken to prevent the partition of India, especially when Muslims (some 25% of population concentrated in two regions) were determined to get their own country, no matter what? Let us hear.
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Old December 31st, 2017, 07:14 AM   #49

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I will say that Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi known in India and elsewhere as ' Mahatma ( Great Soul ) ' Gandhi and his follower J. L. Nehru, being the first prime minister of India, are highly blown up figures who deserve to be trashed.
In fact they had been calamity figures for India. And I say India still suffers politically and economically for their numerous blunders. And I fail to understand why so much credit is given them for Indian Independence. If at all credit is to be given, it should be shared by Hitler and FDR, the first named for having dealt a body blow the British Empire and the second named for pursing this issue with Churchill.
Add the growing evidence of Gandhi paedophilia... Well the evidences were there all the time, but people just closed eyes.
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Old December 31st, 2017, 09:19 AM   #50
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Add the growing evidence of Gandhi paedophilia... Well the evidences were there all the time, but people just closed eyes.
Gandhi has been accused as a racist too. So far none of these accusations has diminished his stature.

There is hardly a country where something is not dedicated in his name, whether a statue, or a street name or something else. But haters are going to hate, and there is nothing one can do about it.
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