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Old February 10th, 2018, 08:00 PM   #1

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Why Stalin and Mao's atrocities receive less attention than Hitler's?


Stalin and Mao killed a comparable if not greater number of civilians than Hitler. Yet Hitler is often held up as being the most evil person ever. Why?

I can think of a few causes:

1st- Hitler lost the war and so his propaganda machine stopped running after his passing while Mao and Stalin's empires were enduring (Stalin's state still remains under Putin's Russia where it is common to find images of Stalin adorning some officials offices, Mao actually is the father of modern China) and hence had produced an avalanche or propaganda to bolster the images of these people.

2nd - Hitler's evil deeds were unparalleled. While many dictators killed civilians by the millions Hitler managed to do something quite unique with the Holocaust. The reason is that he tried to erase an entire ethnic group out of a continent through systematic extermination. Although other attempts of genocide were attempted Hitler actually came close to exterminating that entire ethnic group.
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Old February 10th, 2018, 09:26 PM   #2

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Relatively speaking, Hitler's death count mostly included those he wanted dead. Stalin and Mao's death count included deaths due to incompetence. If we use the same standard to judge Hitler, all civilian/military WW2 deaths (excluding the deaths caused by Japan) would be on his head, not just the deaths from executing minorities or whatnot.

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Old February 10th, 2018, 09:27 PM   #3

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
Stalin and Mao killed a comparable if not greater number of civilians than Hitler. Yet Hitler is often held up as being the most evil person ever. Why?

I can think of a few causes:

1st- Hitler lost the war and so his propaganda machine stopped running after his passing while Mao and Stalin's empires were enduring (Stalin's state still remains under Putin's Russia where it is common to find images of Stalin adorning some officials offices, Mao actually is the father of modern China) and hence had produced an avalanche or propaganda to bolster the images of these people.
If it is so common can you please post some photos where a Stalin portrait adorns an official office?
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Old February 10th, 2018, 10:30 PM   #4

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Isn't it due to Hitler's killings being based on race and ethnicity? Whereas Stalin's purges were seen as being more random and all-encompassing of every segment of society? Although, from the books I've read of him, it was claimed that towards the end of his life he may have been formulating a purge of Jewish figures within the Party, so it's possible he harbored some Antisemitism of his own.

In regards to Mao, it's far more complicated. Weren't a lot of deaths caused by incompetence rather than malice? Like forcing people to try and mine for metal in their back gardens?
Though the excesses of the Cultural Revolution are still repulsive, both in terms of the lives he destroyed and the Chinese history his Red Guards willfully tried to erase through vandalism.
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Old February 10th, 2018, 11:57 PM   #5

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Mao never slaughtered people, people died due to several famines. A consequence of Japan's agricultural devastation of China and the party's bad planning, depending on who you ask, for example, westerners may completely omit the part of Japan's contributions and put if fully on the shoulders of the party. Modern party officials are much more admitting to the planning errors of Mao's regime, as a little power means extreme responsibility.

Last edited by analysis17456; February 11th, 2018 at 12:16 AM.
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Old February 11th, 2018, 12:00 AM   #6

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The Most Deadly 100 Natural Disasters of the 20TH Century
The Disaster Center - Home Page

It's what a non-linear dynamical system is. Notice the flood on 1959, July, to be expected from a country with extensive irrigation networks, that was devasted.
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Old February 11th, 2018, 12:04 AM   #7

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1938 Yellow River Flood, committed by the KMT, sometimes coined the "largest act of environmental warfare in history".[1][2].
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Y...e_note-dutch-1

"Besides the massive death toll, the flooded areas were affected for years to come. The flooded countryside was more or less abandoned and all the crops destroyed. Upon the recession of the waters much of the ground was uncultivable as much of the soil was covered in silt. Many of the public structures and housing were also destroyed, leaving any survivors destitute. The irrigation channels were also ruined, further adding to the toll on the farmlands.[5] The destruction also had a long-term psychological effect on the Chinese population. Unable to fully decide which group deserved more blame for the catastrophe, the Chinese Government or the invading Japanese, many survivors blamed both sides. However, because there were many Chinese civilians killed during the flood by the KMT, most of the civilians residing in that area began to cooperate with the Japanese. Believing that the civilians would help them, the flooded area was turned into a recruiting ground for the Chinese Communists, who used survivors' anger towards a shared enemy to bring them into their ranks. By the 1940s the area had evolved into a major guerrilla base known as the Yuwansu Base Area.[5]
"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Y...lood#Aftermath

It will have long-term consequences, not because of magic, but because of the nature of mathematical chaos. No one but only a select few of the most elite of physicists understood mathematical chaos back then.

One source as sourced on the page:
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/...34450100800204

.

The fact of the matter is, China was friendlier with the Soviet Union, and had direct military confrontations, even victorious, in Korea against the U.S. and the UN, involving many countries from Canada to India. For them, they would wish to villanize China, someone, so as they did with Stalin, they would do so with Mao.

Last edited by analysis17456; February 11th, 2018 at 12:12 AM.
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Old February 11th, 2018, 01:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analysis17456 View Post
Mao never slaughtered people, people died due to several famines. A consequence of Japan's agricultural devastation of China and the party's bad planning, depending on who you ask, for example, westerners may completely omit the part of Japan's contributions and put if fully on the shoulders of the party. Modern party officials are much more admitting to the planning errors of Mao's regime, as a little power means extreme responsibility.
It's also worth remembering the effects of China being ravaged by civil war for more than 20 years. That sort of chaos is not easily recovered from.
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Old February 11th, 2018, 01:24 AM   #9

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@chean
I agree.
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Old February 11th, 2018, 01:35 AM   #10

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
Isn't it due to Hitler's killings being based on race and ethnicity? Whereas Stalin's purges were seen as being more random and all-encompassing of every segment of society? Although, from the books I've read of him, it was claimed that towards the end of his life he may have been formulating a purge of Jewish figures within the Party, so it's possible he harbored some Antisemitism of his own.

In regards to Mao, it's far more complicated. Weren't a lot of deaths caused by incompetence rather than malice? Like forcing people to try and mine for metal in their back gardens?
Though the excesses of the Cultural Revolution are still repulsive, both in terms of the lives he destroyed and the Chinese history his Red Guards willfully tried to erase through vandalism.
Yes, Stalin was indeed planning to kill Jews, towards the end of his life.
He used to make fun of Lazar Kaganovich, one of his flunkeys, who was Jewish. I believe that most of the old generation of Russia ( By old I mean around Stalin's time ) were somewhat anti-semetic.
I want to quote from Robert Service's biography of Stalin ( published by Panmacmillan, 2010, ISBN 978-0-330-51837-6 ) , from pages 518 and 519.
" He did this in line with his lurch into an anti-Jewish campaign in the USSR after he fell out with the Israeli government. Communist parties were constrained to select a Jew from among their midst, put him on show trial and execute him.----Laszlo Rajk in Hungary, Rudolf Slansky in Czechoslovakia and Ana Pauker in Romania: all were found guilty without the slightest evidence that they had worked for the foreign intelligence agencies. All were shot. "
It might be worth keeping in mind that Trotsky, Kamenev and Zinoviev, former associates of Stalin and eminent communists , were all to die at the instigation of Stalin and all were Jews. Maxim Litvinov, for a time the Foreign Minister under Stalin was a Jew but he was simply kicked out to please Hitler, probably but was spared his life.
It might be worth noting here that the first love of Svetlana Stalin was a Jew. Stalin was unhappy about this and berated Svetlana for being attracted towards a Jew.
Solomon Mikhoels, leader of the Jewish anti-Fascist Committee ( formed in WW II )was killed in a car crash on Stalin's orders in 1948. The Committee was disbanded and the rest of its leadership was arrested and shot.

Last edited by rvsakhadeo; February 11th, 2018 at 02:18 AM.
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