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Old April 16th, 2018, 07:41 AM   #1
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Conspiracy theories about European Jews (Ashkenazi) Are they founded? What is their


origin?

The "Jewish Question" is deeply behind the "National Socialist" movement of Germany, the one which took control of Germany in 1933 and caused WW2 (the worst war ever).

Even Adolf Hitler said he chose the swastika as symbol of his movement and of "New Germany" because swastika meant to represent "the victory of Aryans over Judaism".

So what's the real connection? The real explanation for all of this?

It's the jewish political figures protesting in 1918 Germany, before the end of the war? The success of Jewish people in the financial sector? The jewish origins of Karl Marx and other marxist people?

Let's debate this, It's a key question to understand World's History.
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Old April 16th, 2018, 10:11 AM   #2
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What's the real connection for what? Hitler and his contemporaries hatred of the Jewish people? I think the topic has been done to death over the years hasn't it...

It makes for fascinating research with regards to the complete lack of empathy that existed within the power structure of such a proud nation...

I'd be interested to hear your opinion though, as you seem well read up on this topic?
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Old April 16th, 2018, 10:57 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePrioryPodcast View Post
What's the real connection for what? Hitler and his contemporaries hatred of the Jewish people? I think the topic has been done to death over the years hasn't it...

It makes for fascinating research with regards to the complete lack of empathy that existed within the power structure of such a proud nation...

I'd be interested to hear your opinion though, as you seem well read up on this topic?



1. I'm not interested in moral valoration of the Nazi regime, which is the most habitual path when this subject is put on the table. I'm interested in a more concrete debate regarding the origin of the hatred toward the Ashkenazi jews, and the origin of them being accused of all kinds of disasters, especially in Germany.


2. My opinion points out, especially to the final moments of World War One, when some political figures of Jewish origin participated in all kinds of protests against the war, and for some ultra-nationalist germans that was considered a stabbing in the back. It's important also to see how in 19th century Germany, after jews reached the "equality before the law" in the new German state, jews were not seen as "culturally and ethnically German", and among German Jews German patriotism was not something prevalent.
Example: When composer Richard Wagner said jews "couldn't feel nor understand the deep meanings of German pride and nationalism".
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Old April 16th, 2018, 11:28 AM   #4

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The "key" to understanding history? Certainly the irrational fear of folks that people view as outside the group they identify with has had an impact on history. I don't think German antisemitism is particularly surprising or special. Pretty much wherever we look now and in the past we see it. That it rose to murder on an industrial scale in the mid-20th century is a product of a lot of converging circumstances.
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Old April 16th, 2018, 11:47 AM   #5
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The "key" to understanding history? Certainly the irrational fear of folks that people view as outside the group they identify with has had an impact on history. I don't think German antisemitism is particularly surprising or special. Pretty much wherever we look now and in the past we see it. That it rose to murder on an industrial scale in the mid-20th century is a product of a lot of converging circumstances.

Please, I'm asking for historical argumentation and not moral valoration, I'm trying to discuss about historical precedents regarding problems with the jewish community, and the ethno-social conflict related to it.
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Old April 17th, 2018, 01:47 AM   #6

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bombarda55 View Post
My opinion points out, especially to the final moments of World War One, when some political figures of Jewish origin participated in all kinds of protests against the war, and for some ultra-nationalist germans that was considered a stabbing in the back.
Can you cite a source for the claim that "political figures of Jewish origin participated in all kinds of protests against the war"?

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Originally Posted by Bombarda55 View Post
It's important also to see how in 19th century Germany, after jews reached the "equality before the law" in the new German state, jews were not seen as "culturally and ethnically German", and among German Jews German patriotism was not something prevalent.
As above, lack of patriotism on the part of the German Jews is an assertion I think you will need to support. Given that Jews were over-represented in the German army of WWI, that assertion seems of dubious validity.

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Originally Posted by Bombarda55 View Post
Example: When composer Richard Wagner said jews "couldn't feel nor understand the deep meanings of German pride and nationalism".
Wagner is infamous for his very vocal dislike of Jews. I submit that he is hardly a reliable source for information about them. He also wrote of "'the Jew' that he is 'incapable ... of artistic expression, neither through his outer appearance, nor through his language and least of all through his singing.' Instead, Wagner believed Jews could only 'imitate art.'" Your quote says more about Wagner than it does about Jews in Germany.

Last edited by Recusant; April 17th, 2018 at 01:51 AM.
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Old April 17th, 2018, 02:46 AM   #7

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The nazis were rather late at the party in hatred of the jews I'm afraid. Among other things focusing on a particular section/enemy/perceived problem is a fantastic way of uniting everyone behind you.
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Old April 17th, 2018, 04:13 AM   #8

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Jews have been the European go-to group for every sort of conspiracy since the ascendancy of the Christian church. Their 'original sin' of having Christ executed and memory of their persecution of the early Christians placed then firmly in the church's sights.
They were refused admission to many crafts and occupations, often forced in to such non-Christian labour like medicine and banking, and becoming successful in these fields ironically caused even more resentment. Over the centuries this ridiculous persecution developed a life of its own and it became accepted in Europe that Jews were inferior, untrustworthy and drank the blood of Christian babies.

The rest is history.
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Old April 17th, 2018, 04:42 AM   #9
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This may be useful at least regarding the infamous Protocols: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_for_Genocide
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Old April 17th, 2018, 06:30 AM   #10

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bombarda55 View Post
Please, I'm asking for historical argumentation and not moral valoration, I'm trying to discuss about historical precedents regarding problems with the jewish community, and the ethno-social conflict related to it.
Moral valoration? Huh?
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