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Old May 17th, 2018, 01:39 PM   #1
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How open or sceptical?


A question about how skeptical we are and should be. Out of curiosity. If we think about the possibility of lands, peoples, cultures, cities that may have disappeared into "thin air" as it is said, how believable is that? If one is very skeptical it may seem easy to just think it as a non-possibility. For, how could it be possible? On the other hand, as I have sometimes used a little time reading of viewing what natural forces can do, it seems not that impossible at all for me. Not even a disappearance were we would find it extremely hard to find any trace, even of lands, cities, peoples, of some size. An entire country, say swallowed by the sea. Or islands and lands lost to tectonic forces, or even to some more exotic lethal force.
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Old May 17th, 2018, 02:05 PM   #2

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Originally Posted by Fantasus View Post
A question about how skeptical we are and should be. Out of curiosity. If we think about the possibility of lands, peoples, cultures, cities that may have disappeared into "thin air" as it is said, how believable is that? If one is very skeptical it may seem easy to just think it as a non-possibility. For, how could it be possible? On the other hand, as I have sometimes used a little time reading of viewing what natural forces can do, it seems not that impossible at all for me. Not even a disappearance were we would find it extremely hard to find any trace, even of lands, cities, peoples, of some size. An entire country, say swallowed by the sea. Or islands and lands lost to tectonic forces, or even to some more exotic lethal force.
'Tis a good question. Things seem to be getting further pushed back in time as far as evidence of modern humans or close ancestors or relations, but how developed were things...

https://www.livescience.com/51848-mo...n-channel.html

Certainly Hancockian advanced lost civilizations are for History Channel silliness. Then there are "out of place artifacts". --almost always fake or naturally occurring.
But certainly catastrophes and changes in water levels did swallow some ancient cities, and the Black Sea has evidence of activity, now submerged. Maybe not always as dramatic as Santorini. India, Egypt, Americas..
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Old May 17th, 2018, 02:44 PM   #3
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'Tis a good question. Things seem to be getting further pushed back in time as far as evidence of modern humans or close ancestors or relations, but how developed were things...

https://www.livescience.com/51848-mo...n-channel.html

Certainly Hancockian advanced lost civilizations are for History Channel silliness. Then there are "out of place artifacts". --almost always fake or naturally occurring.
But certainly catastrophes and changes in water levels did swallow some ancient cities, and the Black Sea has evidence of activity, now submerged. Maybe not always as dramatic as Santorini. India, Egypt, Americas..
My reason for asking is I more and more think there are forces that could wipe an entire civilization - or a planet - out. There could be volcanoes, or an asteroid or a megasized earthquake, a great flood and probably many other things, and it is in no way unthinkable they could get a size sufficient for this "purpose". Perhaps most of the historical community out there are rather skeptical? Though I donīt know.
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Old May 17th, 2018, 03:12 PM   #4

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My reason for asking is I more and more think there are forces that could wipe an entire civilization - or a planet - out. There could be volcanoes, or an asteroid or a megasized earthquake, a great flood and probably many other things, and it is in no way unthinkable they could get a size sufficient for this "purpose". Perhaps most of the historical community out there are rather skeptical? Though I donīt know.
For Earth, I think we would have to see some evidence, as we have rocks from all ages and understand the processes that created them, or evidence of an asteroid or comet impact; we can still see remnants of impacts, e.g. Chicxulub
A supervolcano would leave a lot of evidence, as seen in India. Bursts of gamma rays from supernovae leave a signature. You could just have a catastrophe created by the folks living on it ruining things..

I bet you'd dig this series:

https://m.youtube.com/results?search...e+after+people

So goth too!
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Old May 17th, 2018, 11:01 PM   #5
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For Earth, I think we would have to see some evidence, as we have rocks from all ages and understand the processes that created them, or evidence of an asteroid or comet impact; we can still see remnants of impacts, e.g. Chicxulub
A supervolcano would leave a lot of evidence, as seen in India. Bursts of gamma rays from supernovae leave a signature. You could just have a catastrophe created by the folks living on it ruining things..

I bet you'd dig this series:

https://m.youtube.com/results?search...e+after+people

So goth too!
Well, yes. Then only if we add such evidence May not always be that easy to get and to understand Catastrophical impacts was not Just accepted from the start. Since Most of the planet is covered by oceans and much of the rest is arctic it May be hård to detect even some sizeable catastrophes.
Written history does May not tell about More than the latest few centuries. Or millenia if we Look at the "old" civilisations. So Most disasters would not be noticed.
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Old May 17th, 2018, 11:25 PM   #6

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I think you have to go with what the historical record tells us. If delving back into prehistory, the archaeological record.

If there is nothing in either the historical record or the archaeological record supporting a claim of lost civilizations, than those claims should be met with a healthy dose of skepticism.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 12:14 AM   #7

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Imagination and an ability to think outside the box is, I think, what separates a good historian from a mediocre one. This imagination has to be informed by the historical record however. So openness of mind is certainly good and commendable, just not so open your brain falls out.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 12:38 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Scaeva View Post
I think you have to go with what the historical record tells us. If delving back into prehistory, the archaeological record.

If there is nothing in either the historical record or the archaeological record supporting a claim of lost civilizations, than those claims should be met with a healthy dose of skepticism.
This is not so much about making specific claims. More, I think it is about looking at what could be. And the archaeological record is not static, or should not be (it may often be different when we discuss the written historical record). And here it is not only about archaeology, but geology, astronomy etcetera as well.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 01:55 AM   #9

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It is good to have an open mind but not so open that your brain falls out.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 02:18 AM   #10
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It is good to have an open mind but not so open that your brain falls out.
Well. And when do You think that happens?
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