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Old November 21st, 2012, 12:54 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Wenge View Post
Doctor Sun not only toured western nations he was in fact an American citizen. I often play trivia games with my students and one of the questions I frequently pose is, Who is the most important American citizen born in China?
He became a big fan of Lenin and refounded the KMT on leninist lines after 12 years of a banana republic.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 03:11 PM   #112

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Originally Posted by deke View Post
He became a big fan of Lenin and refounded the KMT on leninist lines after 12 years of a banana republic.
What Banana Republic?
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Old November 21st, 2012, 05:08 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Wenge View Post
What Banana Republic?
The beiyang government.
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Old October 24th, 2013, 10:26 PM   #114
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Bad question.
Is western culture better than chinese traditional culture? It is a better question.
And my answer is yes, western culture is much better because of many reasons.
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Old October 25th, 2013, 08:04 AM   #115
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Neither was and is superior.

China had been in almost every way ahead of Europe for a really long time until the 1700s. Science, technology, economy, urbanization, industrialization, etc... no real comparison can be made.

China had become very developed in the Tang Dynasty (~600 AD), and it would take centuries before Europe can reach the Tang's standards. Can you even compare Tang China with, say, the Franks or Anglo-Saxons that existed like 200-300 years later? One had a very well developed bureaucratic system and vacation pay for civil servants, something sane modern employment contracts must have. The Middle Ages of Europe were plagued by miserable living standards.

The Song Dynasty (12th-13th Century China) comparison with the West is even more lopsided. It was an urbanized society with social clubs, forensic science, paper money, ventures, to name a few things. Keep in mind, generally the Europeans would seek China, not the other way around. One would be impressed with the other, but the feeling was not mutual.

The Ming Dynasty was also centuries ahead of Europe. It was practically a thriving capitalism with wage-labour economics and massive industries. It also had the ancient equivalent of multiple carrier fleets. Again, no real comparison between the two can be made.

European enlightenment and Chinese isolation, along with Chinese arrogance and the always-existing geographic barriers. From then on Europe easily outpaced China and beat China in every way comparable, including areas where China had been the leader of. Technologically, scientifically, economically, Europeans had far outpaced China.

Then you have China's Century of Humiliation and long lengths of misery, shame, corruption, and disasters. China and Europe have been reserved.

With this history in mind, it is most logical to say that neither is superior to each other. Who have managed to stay in the top for ever? No one.

Last edited by YouLoveMeYouKnowIt; October 25th, 2013 at 08:06 AM.
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Old October 25th, 2013, 11:48 AM   #116
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Clearly there are certain aspects of Eastern and Western culture that are very attractive to each other. They like a little bit of what we do and we like a little bit of what they do. If you look around a typical house in the western world, there are many eastern influences at work. It's the same over there I imagine. The two worlds(maybe not the correct term) are more closely linked than we think.
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Old October 25th, 2013, 12:40 PM   #117
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As historians, we value usually all believe that all history is important. To say if Western Civilization or the Eastern is better blinds us. Both fronts gave us amazing insight to life philosophically, culturally, economically, politically, and any other "ally" you can think of. I suppose superiority is the wrong question, and the question of which one I find more interesting is an easier and more fair question to ask.

In that case I really like studying Western Civilization more, especially European history. I love studying the imperialistic groups in that part of the world for some reason a lot. Western art is also pretty awesome if I may say so. Of course, Eastern Civilization art is pretty amazing as well.
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chinese, europeans or westerners, superior

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