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Old March 10th, 2012, 08:40 PM   #1
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it seems like Eastern Europe is more nationalistic then Western European


i mean, it seems like Eastern Europe, Russia the slavic countries, etc. are more right wing-nationalistic, then the western european countries which tend to be more liberal....

why is that?
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Old March 10th, 2012, 09:13 PM   #2

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Actually in France the conservatives have held the Senate for the last 50 years or so, and the Conservatives are the ruling party in the UK right now.

Sarkozy and Cameron are both very right leaning.
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Old March 10th, 2012, 09:17 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by WeisSaul View Post
Actually in France the conservatives have held the Senate for the last 50 years or so, and the Conservatives are the ruling party in the UK right now.

Sarkozy and Cameron are both very right leaning.
true, but i was, and i should of worded my message better, but im talking more far-right, ultranationalist, white supremacist groups etc. etc.


for instance there are alot of neo-nazi groups in Russia (which i find ironic since Hitler viewed Russians as "subhumans" or something, but nonetheless) thats what i was trying to formulate
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Old March 10th, 2012, 09:43 PM   #4

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I don't want to stigmatize anyone, but there are neo nazi groups in Canada to my understanding.

Neo-Nazism in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's not Europe, but there are always going to be a really small portion of any population which claim to be the legacy of a political party which just does not exist anymore.

Also, the Nazi's were left wing - I know some claim they were right, but nobody ever seems to want to explain why.

The Nazis were National Socialists. A little fascist as well.


IN any event the wiki claims this, which is believable -
Quote:
The Nazis were presented by Hitler and other proponents and viewed by some scholars as being neither left-wing nor right-wing but politically syncretic.
In any event, Hitler was a really power hungry kind of guy. I am not sure his ideology was as important as his rise to power was. Maybe the Night of the Long Knives, and who was executed or considered an enemy might help figure out if he was eliminating a left branch or a right branch of political enemies.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives"]Night of the Long Knives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Quote:
Leading figures of the left-wing Strasserist faction of the Nazi Party, along with its namesake, Gregor Strasser, were murdered, as were prominent conservative anti-Nazis (such as former Chancellor Kurt von Schleicher and Gustav Ritter von Kahr, who had suppressed Hitler's Beer Hall Putsch in 1923). Many of those killed were members of the Sturmabteilung (SA), the paramilitary brownshirts.
Quote:
Many stormtroopers believed in the socialist promise of National Socialism and expected the Nazi regime to take more radical economic action, such as breaking up the vast landed estates of the aristocracy. When the Nazi regime did not take such steps, those who expected an economic as well as a political revolution were disillusioned
So maybe it is safer to call Hitler, right wing, and perhaps it might be more appropriate to call the Nazi movement itself, left wing? Politicians and their promises. Left and Right.

That page does however claim that Hitler took out conservatives as well.

Quote:
The regime did not limit itself to a purge of the SA, however. Having earlier imprisoned or exiled prominent Social Democrats and Communists, Hitler used the occasion to move against conservatives he considered unreliable. This included Vice-Chancellor Papen and those in his immediate circle.
The Nazis, and Hitler, were a radical extremist left, which when rising to power corrupted, as anyone might. Is it fair to call that conservatism? No way, that's a corrupt left wing.

Jmo... The Nazi's were left.


This is an interesting page... It claims privatized business continued to exist, but the free market was more or less taken out of the equation.

http://mises.org/daily/3274

Quote:
The second pattern [of socialism] (we may call it the Hindenburg or German pattern) nominally and seemingly preserves private ownership of the means of production, and keeps the appearance of ordinary markets, prices, wages, and interest rates. These are, however, no longer entrepreneurs, but only shop managers (Betriebsführer in the terminology of the Nazi legislation). These shop managers are seemingly instrumental in the conduct of the enterprises entrusted to them; they buy and sell, hire and discharge workers and remunerate their services, contract debts and pay interest and amortization. But in all their activities they are bound to obey unconditionally the orders issued by the government's supreme office of production management. This office (the Reichswirtschaftsministerium in Nazi Germany) tells the shop managers what and how to produce, at what prices and from whom to buy, at what prices and to whom to sell. It assigns every worker to his job and fixes his wages. It decrees to whom and on what terms the capitalists must entrust their funds. Market exchange is merely a sham.

To keep it on track, I haven't truly noticed any difference in nationalism from either the Eastern or Western parts of Europe. As for economic policies, there do seem to be slightly more socialist governments in some areas versus others. Whether that creates a need for a redundant socialist neo nazi group, is questionable to me, anyways. So maybe that is why they are perceived as "right wing" just to contrast the political parties? I am not entirely sure. If it helps, Russia is home to the world's highest concentration of Billionaires according to forbes.

http://www.rferl.org/content/billion...a/2333346.html

It is a free market to my understanding.

Last edited by MrKap; March 10th, 2012 at 10:31 PM.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 04:57 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Supercar120 View Post
true, but i was, and i should of worded my message better, but im talking more far-right, ultranationalist, white supremacist groups etc. etc.

for instance there are alot of neo-nazi groups in Russia (which i find ironic since Hitler viewed Russians as "subhumans" or something, but nonetheless) thats what i was trying to formulate
Can you name Eastern European country where neonazi group or party is in government? Or at last in parliament?
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Old March 11th, 2012, 06:07 AM   #6

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Originally Posted by arras View Post
Can you name Eastern European country where neonazi group or party is in government? Or at last in parliament?
How about Hungary where a political party such as Jobbik gets more than 15% of the voters?
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Old March 11th, 2012, 06:18 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supercar120 View Post
i mean, it seems like Eastern Europe, Russia the slavic countries, etc. are more right wing-nationalistic, then the western european countries which tend to be more liberal....

why is that?
that's because in France and in th UK (+USA) there is a "winner takes everthing" system which is unfavourable for smaller parties.

But the Le Pen party is always somehere between between 10-20% in France and I think the BNP also would be between at least 5-10% if the elections would be propotional in Britain.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 06:22 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Pythagoras View Post
How about Hungary where a political party such as Jobbik gets more than 15% of the voters?
It got the votes not because it's neonazi but because nobody of the political parties cared about the gypsy problem. (the same as muslims in western eu.)
In the Netherlands the antymuslim party got 15%
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Old March 11th, 2012, 06:26 AM   #9

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Sarkozy and Cameron are both very right leaning.
Neither could be described as 'very' right leaning; Cameron is in fact to the left of the majority of Conservative MPs.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 06:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pythagoras View Post
How about Hungary where a political party such as Jobbik gets more than 15% of the voters?
It is more or less exception and as mofli87 pointed out, similar parties are much more common in Western Europe especially with failures of multiculturalism and immigration. Moreover it is I think first time Jobik is in parliament. Correct me if I am wrong.

On the other side left wing parties have considerable support. Communists are in both Russian and Czech parliaments for years. They newer left them since fall of socialism. Social democrats just won decisively in yesterday elections in Slovakia.
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