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Old July 2nd, 2012, 06:07 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by lokariototal View Post
Why did Constantine made christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire?

What is the REAL reason?
First of all, (Saint) Flavius Valerius Constantinus didn't make Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire.
Such momentous legal action was decreed by the emperor Theodosius I several decades later (380).

What Constantinus and Licinius did was to decree the tolerance of the Christian religion & Church through the Edict of Mediolanum (312)

Additionally, Constantinus eventually became the unofficial sponsor & protector of the Christian Church, more specifically of a particular denomination (aka the Nicene creed) fundamentally chosen by him as the official orthodoxy.

Constantinus never officially abandoned polytheism; in fact, he was the last posthumously deified Roman emperor.

"REAL reason???"
If you may imply on terms of pragmatical realpolitik, Constantinus' most obvious reason for this notorious religious policy would have been to recruit the support of the already mature Church for the civil administration of his complex & colossal Empire.
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 06:26 PM   #22

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
"REAL reason???"
If you may imply on terms of pragmatical realpolitik, Constantinus' most obvious reason for this notorious religious policy would have been to recruit the support of the already mature Church for the civil administration of his complex & colossal Empire.
Does this mean that the Roman Empire allowed the existence of a mature Church, referring to Christianity, within the bounds of its empire, prior to Constantine, that had the power and the potential for civil administration?

I don't think Christianity became a power base in Europe, prior to Constantine. Rather, it was Constantine that allowed the religion to exist without the members of which to experience from the fear of persecution, hence, the Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire being rising idea and with genuine teachings like the God as the one who sacrificed for the people, and not the other way around.
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 06:43 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
First of all, (Saint) Flavius Valerius Constantinus didn't make Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire.
Such momentous legal action was decreed by the emperor Theodosius I several decades later (380).

What Constantinus and Licinius did was to decree the tolerance of the Christian religion & Church through the Edict of Mediolanum (312)

Additionally, Constantinus eventually became the unofficial sponsor & protector of the Christian Church, more specifically of a particular denomination (aka the Nicene creed) fundamentally chosen by him as the official orthodoxy.

Constantinus never officially abandoned polytheism; in fact, he was the last posthumously deified Roman emperor.

"REAL reason???"
If you may imply on terms of pragmatical realpolitik, Constantinus' most obvious reason for this notorious religious policy would have been to recruit the support of the already mature Church for the civil administration of his complex & colossal Empire.
sylla:

How would you differentiate a State Religion from a unofficial sponsor & protector?

Constantine was never ever a believer in polytheism, He was a Mythrian as was his army with some Christian teachings his mother Helena bestowed on him.

How and who deifies anybody other than God or Jesus especially after their death???

Constantine had a masiahionary position regarding religion and Christianity worshiped him just below Jesus. In addition, he decreed himself to be the thirteenth Apostle. Christian leadership welcomed the chance to be Constantine's administrators. For the first time they were among the ruling authorities instead if the victums of persecutions. Too, IMHA, the Christian clergy was comfortable with Mithraism since most of Christian administrative practices came out of Mithraism.

Lake

Last edited by laketahoejwb; July 2nd, 2012 at 06:54 PM.
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 06:45 PM   #24
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Does this mean that the Roman Empire allowed the existence of a mature Church, referring to Christianity, within the bounds of its empire, prior to Constantine, that had the power and the potential for civil administration?

I don't think Christianity became a power base in Europe, prior to Constantine. Rather, it was Constantine that allowed the religion to exist without the members of which to experience from the fear of persecution, hence, the Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire being rising idea and with genuine teachings like the God as the one who sacrificed for the people, and not the other way around.
There is good hard evidence on a well developed administrative ecclesiastical structure with significant own resources long before the Edict of Mediolanum, with or without being "allowed" by anyone.

And again, Christianity didn't become the official religion of the empire until more than half century after Constantinus I.
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 06:52 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by laketahoejwb View Post
Constantine honored the "Vision" of Christ that he had witnessed at Saxa Rubra. Using the shields painted with the sign, he then went about taking over the entire Roman world at that time. As an offering to the Christian God, he instituted the Edict of Milan then established Christianity as the sole state religion with he being the highest officer.
To quote Asimov's Chronology of the World: "In 312, Constantine invaded Italy, defeated Maxentius, and marched on Rome. Maxentius opposed him again at the Milvian Bridge that spanned the Tiber River. It occurred to Constantine that since even Diocletian had failed to suppress the Christians, it might be good politics to get those enthusiasts on his side. Therefore, he spread the news that he had seen a glowing cross in the heaven and placed Christian insignia on his soldiers' shields. He won the battle (which he might have done anyway), and with the Edict of Milan in 313, he allowed Christians free exercise of their religion. After that, the Christians rallied to his side, and he was unstoppable."

Also, Kirialax is right, the battle you are referring to was an isolated incident a decade before he started "taking over the entire Roman world".

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kri my friend:

All of them. ......The 300 recognized Constantine as their leader and Constantine ruled over the Councils as the State. Constantine ruled the Western world at this time and didn't need a lawyer or paper because he was Augusta of Agustas and his mere nod was law.
That's not the same as making it state religion, and yes he did need paper if he wanted to make it the state religion- that's what Theodosius I did. Christianity accepting Constantine as it's leader does not mean that Constantine accepted Christ as his; in fact, he wasn't baptized until he was on his death bed.
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 06:55 PM   #26

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There is good hard evidence on a well developed administrative ecclesiastical structure with significant own resources long before the Edict of Mediolanum, with or without being "allowed" by anyone.
What? You mean Christians being crucified by the Roman soldiers was an act of allowing them to exist? Those persecutions by the Romans against the Christians before Constantine created a well developed structure? I disagree with you.

Quote:
And again, Christianity didn't become the official religion of the empire until more than half century after Constantinus I.
Constantine is the law himself, and when he allowed the Christians to practice their faith, it was the law that turned Christianity to be the religion of the Roman empire, irrespective of further formalities of announcement of such by his successors.
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 06:57 PM   #27

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Constantine made Christianity the quasi-official religion of the Roman Empire for the same reason Mohammed developed Islam: to unify a diverse peoples with a higher purpose when they needed it most. Mohammed unified the tribes of Arabia and propelled them to the great Arab-Islamic Empire in a matter of decades through the unifying rallying cry of a shared religion. Constantine effectively rejuvenated and largely re-invented the Roman Empire with his conversion and moving the capital to Byzantium/Constantinople.
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 07:00 PM   #28
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Does this mean that the Roman Empire allowed the existence of a mature Church, referring to Christianity, within the bounds of its empire, prior to Constantine, that had the power and the potential for civil administration?

I don't think Christianity became a power base in Europe, prior to Constantine. Rather, it was Constantine that allowed the religion to exist without the members of which to experience from the fear of persecution, hence, the Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire being rising idea and with genuine teachings like the God as the one who sacrificed for the people, and not the other way around.
Yes and no. Christianity was a power base pre-Constantine, making up a sizable and growing portion of the Roman Empire. Constantine was learning from Diocletian's failed attempts at persecution and decided that if you can't beat them, join them.

The idea you've come back to in a lot of your posts, however, about using Christianity to turn the Romans into a peace-loving and pacified populace is just not born out by the facts. The Roman Empire, even at this late stage in its existence, was one of the most war mongering and agressive societies that has ever existed, and the wars certainly did not abate with the acceptance of Christianity. Constantine needed soldiers from his territories to fight in his wars, and insofar as a revolt of the people never happened in the entire history of Rome (unless you want to include slave revolts which certainly wouldn't be stopped by a Roman emperor preaching love and equality), I don't think Constantine would adopt a policy for the sole purpose of making non-violent the most agressive society in human history (IMO).
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 07:00 PM   #29

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^nicely said, Publius. Constantine truly reinvented the Roman Empire, and Christianity created a lot of impact over it.
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 07:02 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by dagul View Post
What? You mean Christians being crucified by the Roman soldiers was an act of allowing them to exist? Those persecutions by the Romans against the Christians before Constantine created a well developed structure? I disagree with you.

Constantine is the law himself, and when he allowed the Christians to practice their faith, it was the law that turned Christianity to be the religion of the Roman empire, irrespective of further formalities of announcement of such by his successors.
He's saying it existed in spite of that. Which is just factually true, frankly. Constantine didn't pick an obscure sect and give it prominence, he picked the rising religious star of his era

Not the same thing. Constantine also continued to allow the pagans to practice their religions; the fact that the Christians got that permission later is not the same thing as making it the state religion
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