Sicknero

Zuse's machine used punch tape instead of cards. The only electrical part it had was a 1kW motor to provide clock frequency. I think Collosus is the first true electrical one.

(As an interesting aside, "the first computers of Zuse were named with V (V1 to V4), but after WWII he changed their names to Z1 to Z4, in order to avoid the nasty association with the V1-V4 military rockets.")

Could you expand on that a bit please? I'm not sure what your point is re; technological advancement.

AlpinLuke

That an imminent war didn't push French military sector to require a better communication system for their tanks, even if it was an evident advantage to be able to communicate from a tank to an other in any condition.

So far I have followed the discussion, submitting some inputs to explain my opinion that warfare is not that decisive in development and advancement.

Anyway, at this point, I see my stance not that strong.

Now I can reach a preliminary idea that war accelerates advancement, but not always and not always in the best way [the final purpose of a war system is to be effective in destroying, not in building a more advanced world ...].

Sicknero

Ah thanks. That's what I thought you probably meant, just checking.
I was thinking similar thoughts about Zuse's computer, working as he was for the Henschel Aircraft Company in the late 1930s. His motivation was just to make his own job easier, but I wonder how that ties in with technology being accelerated by war.

Notable also how imminent war didn't push the British into building better tanks full-stop. In France 1940 we had the Matilda 1 which was developed in the mid-30s under serious financial constraints.

amazedkat

ermm not really the punch tape on the z (v) machines wasn't really loaded in the same way as colossus, having a slightly different function.

it was proto/ electric mechanical yes.

manual settings for the z series through the input.

•Lu—to call the input device for decimal numbers
•Ld—to call the output device for decimal numbers
2. Two instructions for reading/writing from/to memory:
•Pr z—read the contents of the memory cell z into Registers R1 or R2
•Ps z—write the contents of Register R1 to the memory cell z
3. Four arithmetical instructions:
•Ls1—add the two floating-point numbers in the Registers R1 and R2
•Ls2—subtract the two floating-point numbers in the Registers R1 and R2
•Lm—multiply the two floating-point numbers in the Registers R1 and R2
•Li—divide the two floating point numbers in the Registers R1 and R2

it's really doing a different job to colossus. colossus was a true false comparison machine. apples and pears really, the z computers were designed to aid mathematical problems, colossus was as well strictly speaking, it's how it reduced false to leave true but needed to be programmed to understand expanding and differing problems.

Cavanboy

Chinese used fireworks in battle?

Sicknero

Yes you're absolutely right, I've been looking it up and answering my own question... e.g;

Firearms

and..

http://depts.washington.edu/chinaciv...h/firearms.htm

The thing about westerners turning it into a weapon of war had the feel of a historical myth, the Chinese were using it aggressively very early on. And very inventively.

Louise C

Hard to see how it couldn't be more advanced without wars. People would have more time for inventing and creating things, and less time messing things up. And there must have been loads of people killed in wars who would otherwise have invented something useful. I expect someond would have thought of the internet if there hadn't been any wars. Perhaps sooner.

Fantasus

Let us for the sake of argument say wars spurs technological innovation, science and economy while longterm peace means the opposite. Should we then not have expected a slowdown in those fields in Europe between 1871 and 1914 or in US. of A 1865-1914, since there was relatively few and insignificant wars in that period (except some colonial wars, that made little destruction in the abovementioned regions). Or what about western Europe 1945 -1989 ( or 2012)?

Cavanboy

You know everyone always says this, but isnt there a rule of war were you do not have to serve if you are seeking further education? eg, university level?

Cavanboy

But didnt America advance more from 1914 to now than from 1865 to 1914?

Wars of this period included:
World War 1
World War 2
Korea
Vietnam
Wars in the middle east

In ww1 america got loads of money by lending out loans to europe, in ww2 america bumped up its industrial output and stepped out inventions like the A bomb, you see more progression in America from these 2 wars than you did from 1865-1914