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Old July 28th, 2012, 10:59 AM   #21

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Originally Posted by Carl J. Weber View Post

Thanks for your sharply reasoned specific arguments. (I had consulted a lawyer. It's academic integrity at issue.)
Fair enough, then what do you need our opinion for?!
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Old July 28th, 2012, 12:26 PM   #22

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If a person gives a lecture, there is no need to note any referrences or footnotes or site anything specific. One may use the title and your name, but it is not considered plagarism if during a lecture you give examples or talk about different views by others. If you give a handout you may refer to an article or book etc with footnotes. Your theory can be used to either pursuade listeners or oppose your theory, it does not mean it is plagarized because it is mentioned
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Old July 28th, 2012, 12:35 PM   #23

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I don't believe this would fall under plagiarism, as (from the sounds of it) he isn't agreeing or passing off your ideas as his own; in fact, he's disputing them. Plagiarism, academic dishonesty and copyright infringement (all overlapping) are a foggy area where there is no set line of what is infringement or plagiarism. Obviously the use of your thesis title in this manner represents a lack of originality on his part. I hadn't thought of that. I think based on the use of the title, his work(s) merits a closer examination because there could be cases where he does in fact pull content or ideas from your work which would fall under plagiarism. He has no works on this. He's been saying for years (I surmise), unbeknownst to me, i.e., behind my back, that my work "wasn't very convincing". He is thought of as the leader in the field. I got him to say "not convincing" to my face but he won't say why.

Nearly two years ago he said that I would have to wait till his article was published in a reviewed journal before telling me. It never happened, and based on three references he DID send me, it won't. What he says the references say is not what they say at all. I shot him back copies of the pages he referenced. Silence from his part. He admonishes thin air that the publishers are "so tardy".

The biggest issue today is the lack of interest in pursuing plagiarists in the professional realm, especially when publishers become involved in cases. Doris Kearns Goodwin and Stephen Ambrose are two top historical writers who have been accused (multiple times, with considerable evidence to support the allegations) of plagiarism and yet their books are still published and sold. So, I wish you luck in straightening this out. It's definitely an annoying process to have to go through.

Though noteworthy, the plagiarism is a minor concern. My main concern is getting three of four of my revisionist French colonial history discoveries in circulation regarding the maps of 1650-1700 -- the Marquette/Jolliet/LaSalle genre.


Have you ever considered asking this gentleman to engage you in a "debate" in front of an audience to argue your points to one another? It would give you a chance to defend yourself without old ladies telling you to "shut up".

That came up in his March 15th talk. A fellow in the audience said why don't you guys debate in a forum. He said, "This is what we are doing, Carl had his chance, now it's our turn." But my turn was seven years ago!
. With regard to my simple thesis, the map, "discovered" in 1844, is too correct by 140 years to have been done in 1674, by someone with no known training and associated with no other maps. That's the very simply stated thesis. "The too correct" is my discovery, but I'm standing on somebody else's shoulders who published in 1928 and 1959.

Thanks for your insights.
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Old July 28th, 2012, 12:42 PM   #24

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Originally Posted by History Chick View Post
Fair enough, then what do you need our opinion for?!
The lawyer said academic plagiarism is not a legal question. The issue here, as I get from the forum opinions, is that there is a difference to be noted between using someone's word's and using someone's ideas.
The half-a-dozen dictionaries I looked at do not at all insist on that distinction.

Last edited by Carl J. Weber; July 28th, 2012 at 12:54 PM.
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Old July 28th, 2012, 12:44 PM   #25

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May I hear his side now? Then I might be able to render a judgement.
This would be my view point as well. I need both sides of the issue to make a call.
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Old July 28th, 2012, 12:50 PM   #26

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If a person gives a lecture, there is no need to note any referrences or footnotes or site anything specific. One may use the title and your name, but it is not considered plagarism if during a lecture you give examples or talk about different views by others. In the lecture he attacked my ideas. I would like to know the sources that he says he has. That seems academic fair play. If one uses my title in an announcement, they should use my name to identify it. If you give a handout you may refer to an article or book etc with footnotes. Your theory can be used to either pursuade listeners or oppose your theory, it does not mean it is plagarized because it is mentioned
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Old July 28th, 2012, 12:56 PM   #27

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This would be my view point as well. I need both sides of the issue to make a call.
What do you see as the issue?
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Old July 28th, 2012, 01:06 PM   #28

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If you are so attached to the title of your thesis then perhaps you should have filed for copyright on it. It seems to me that any talk, article or piece of work concerning the marquette map and its veracity might have a title very similar to yours, and his.

Perhaps you should give your own lectures and let the public decide.
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Old July 28th, 2012, 01:11 PM   #29

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Originally Posted by Iolo View Post
It happens: one of my university teachers pinched a few paragraphs from a second-year essay of mine, if you will believe me, and they are there in her book. The whole business is a power-relationship at its worst. Thieving from a thesis, though, is real scumbaggery. I hope you get him! It is best served cold!
Thanks for chiming in. Scambaggery by any other name is still skullduggery. Thanks for the recipe suggestion.
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Old July 28th, 2012, 01:17 PM   #30

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What do you see as the issue?
The call for plagiarism. My first indication after looking at your problem is that its not plagiarism. As someone noted earlier, if you would have published your work then it would have been plagiarism.
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