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Old November 7th, 2012, 08:19 AM   #371

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Why is it then that all the threads under this type of topic are based on the British? Like we take the brunt of all colonizers the world has ever seen.

It just gets tedious. If I was an Indian or an African and all I ever saw were huge threads going on about how screwed up my country has been through history and how evil my nation has been, I may get pissed off in the same respect as some Brits do here.

Getting bored of the same crap in these threads is not the same as being an apologist or fanboy/girl. I think those people clearly stand out above the rest, no?
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Old November 7th, 2012, 08:26 AM   #372

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Belisarius, I'm not baiting anyone.
Oh yes you are, but as the mods have advised me to stop calling complete idiots, complete idiots. I will try not to rise to it.

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I'm showing Geezer an example of what he pretend to be British citizens, a point on which for any reason I don't agree.
First the two pictures you have posted are scenes in South Africa. The first is almost certainly one taken in Katlehong township in 1992 and the second is of the bodies of Mabhutana Siwisa and Mloza Gqomfa in New Brighton township, just outside PE in October last year. The two men were the victims of local vigilante justice from other members of the Xhosa community.
As most even vaguely well-read people will know, South Africans have not been British Citizens since 1948 and the country has not been a Dominion since 1961. As the murdered boys were 19 and 20, they don't really qualify under the grandfather clause, do they?

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Truly sorry if my point may not have been clear enough.
You haven't made a point, you have merely gainsaying facts and posted drivel.
You may care to read Palmerston's speeches in Hansard regarding the latin phrase in my earlier post. You may also care to study the history of British Nationality Acts before you comment, having facts reduces the appearance of blowhard stupidity.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 08:38 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
Oh yes you are, but as the mods have advised me to stop calling complete idiots, complete idiots. I will try not to rise to it.



First the two pictures you have posted are scenes in South Africa. The first is almost certainly one taken in Katlehong township in 1992 and the second is of the bodies of Mabhutana Siwisa and Mloza Gqomfa in New Brighton township, just outside PE in October last year. The two men were the victims of local vigilante justice from other members of the Xhosa community.
As most even vaguely well-read people will know, South Africans have not been British Citizens since 1948 and the country has not been a Dominion since 1961. As the murdered boys were 19 and 20, they don't really qualify under the grandfather clause, do they?


You haven't made a point, you have merely gainsaying facts and posted drivel.
You may care to read Palmerston's speeches in Hansard regarding the latin phrase in my earlier post. You may also care to study the history of British Nationality Acts before you comment, having facts reduces the appearance of blowhard stupidity.
Yup, Belisarius; Geezer has always been a bullying throll; the "complete idiots" term above is hardly atypical, as you could hardly ignore.

From ad hominem insults (both categories together) to poor racism; there's nothing left.

No doubt the kind of hyper-nationalistic behavior that contributes to give any nationality a bad name, if you ask me.

Guess this is an excellent reason to close the thread or to send it to the Chamber, right?

Guess such strategy was sound after all...



Oh, but I was "baiting", right ???

With all due respect as a Moderator and as a Historumite, Belisarius: are you familiar with the concept of double standards?
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Old November 7th, 2012, 08:42 AM   #374
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I'm surprised you guys still read his posts after all these years. Seriously. All he ever does is counter with "that's just fallacious straw man" or accuses people of ad hominem attacks. Again, seriously, check his posts.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 08:45 AM   #375
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I'm surprised you guys still read his posts after all these years. Seriously. All he ever does is counter with "that's just fallacious straw man" or accuses people of ad hominem attacks. Again, seriously, check his posts.
Couldn't agree any more on your last point on such a valuable contribution.

Please, please, please seriously check my posts.
After all, there are only 18,567 of them.
(Otherwise, why on Earth would I be posting in Historum at all?)
Thanks in advance.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 08:45 AM   #376

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I'm surprised you guys still read his posts after all these years. Seriously. All he ever does is counter with "that's just fallacious straw man" or accuses people of ad hominem attacks. Again, seriously, check his posts.
Actually Sylla has my respect and the guy is intelligent. I don't always agree with him, but I still like him and he has a lot of great information and wise words to say.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 08:47 AM   #377
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Why is it then that all the threads under this type of topic are based on the British? Like we take the brunt of all colonizers the world has ever seen.

It just gets tedious. If I was an Indian or an African and all I ever saw were huge threads going on about how screwed up my country has been through history and how evil my nation has been, I may get pissed off in the same respect as some Brits do here.

Getting bored of the same crap in these threads is not the same as being an apologist or fanboy/girl. I think those people clearly stand out above the rest, no?
I like these kind of threads. Getting involved in a heated debate and proving people wrong is very enjoyable for me.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 08:49 AM   #378

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I like these kind of threads. Getting involved in a heated debate and proving people wrong is very enjoyable for me.
Maybe I need to go and paint my nails or something then.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 08:51 AM   #379
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I like these kind of threads. Getting involved in a heated debate and proving people wrong is very enjoyable for me.
Now here's finally a point on which we couldn't 100% agree any more.

Fun & knowledge; what more could we ask for?
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Old November 7th, 2012, 09:22 AM   #380
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I'm new here, but it seems to me there are several logic errors in some of this thread.

1) Using the ethics and morals of the 21st Century to judge the 16th-18th... Look, it sure was an ugly time, but inside the concepts of life and rights at the time there was no difference except scale.

2) There also seems to be on some posters, an assumption that everything would have been an idyllic existence without the interference of the Empire Builders. Yet things were very ugly (especially compared to today) almost universally.
A) Was the slave trade as executed by the Europeans a horrible and ugly business? Most certainly! But it existed in Africa for a millennium before the Europeans showed up.
B) Was the Spanish invasion of Central & Meso America a heartless disaster for the locals? For certain... but they weren't singing kumbaya and group hugging before the west arrived. There was organized slaughter for religious purposes on a scale that would make the Inquisition envious...

My only point is to debate how horrible the past is by today's standards seems to me to be a complete waste of time. It's plenty horrible enough by even their own standards. Do you think the English expansion of Empire was really worse than Tammerlane's? Or the death count was higher in India than from Napoleon's Empirical conquests?

Only one society in the history of the planet ever hit it's peak and didn't try and expand; China's Qin empire, who in voyages of discovery found out there was a big world out there (India, East Africa, and the Malaysian chains at least), and decided they were already better and didn't want to dirty their hands mucking with the others.

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