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Old November 8th, 2012, 02:04 PM   #411

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Originally Posted by Jinit View Post
If there would have been a man like Gandhi in germany , may be there wouldn't have been rise of Nazism at all.

Nazism was the product of a nation and the situation they were put in by several other nations, not the product of a single man. Indeed, Hitler himself was a product of the crimes perpetrated on Germany after the First World War. A man like Gandhi wasn't what Germany wanted, they wanted a warlord. Gandhi would have been as interesting to them as he would be in modern day North Korea.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 02:12 PM   #412
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Not to mention that Germany actually had their own not particularly successful anti-Nazi passive resistance movement, die WeiŖe Rose:
Click the image to open in full size.
... yup, reportedly the contemporary MK Gandhi was a major influence.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 02:15 PM   #413

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Following this very interesting exchange of thoughts something has come to my mind.

The power of the British system is still well evident if we consider how many former colonies or parts of the Empire are today among the greatest economical, military and / or political powers of the world.

We could make an impressive list starting from G20.

We've got

Australia [former colony and the British Monarchy is still the chief of state there]
Canada [same situation as Australia]
India [former colony and second arising economy after China at global level]
South Africa [former colony]
United Kingdom [the core of the Empire]
United States of America [former colony]

Not that bad ...
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Old November 8th, 2012, 02:36 PM   #414

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Originally Posted by Kevinmeath View Post
Really and how do you think the SS would have dealt with passive resistence?

He would have been in a concentration camp in 5 minutes
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Originally Posted by General Michael Collins View Post
Nazism was the product of a nation and the situation they were put in by several other nations, not the product of a single man. Indeed, Hitler himself was a product of the crimes perpetrated on Germany after the First World War. A man like Gandhi wasn't what Germany wanted, they wanted a warlord. Gandhi would have been as interesting to them as he would be in modern day North Korea.
Lets not forget that Gandhi went against the Britsh empire, when the empire was at its height and it was particularly considered impossible for a single man to bend the empire on her knees and yet he did that!!!

And anyway when I made that comment I was thinking about the timeperiod before the world wars.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 02:45 PM   #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpinLuke View Post
Following this very interesting exchange of thoughts something has come to my mind.

The power of the British system is still well evident if we consider how many former colonies or parts of the Empire are today among the greatest economical, military and / or political powers of the world.

We could make an impressive list starting from G20.

We've got

Australia [former colony and the British Monarchy is still the chief of state there]
Canada [same situation as Australia]
India [former colony and second arising economy after China at global level]
South Africa [former colony]
United Kingdom [the core of the Empire]
United States of America [former colony]

Not that bad ...
Currently 22 of the 55 poorest nations of this Planet...
(i.e. lowest GDP per capita according to CIA World Factbook 2012)
are former colonies of the British Empire.
Actually including the vast majority of the population of the former Imperial territory.
Especially of the conquered native population...

An impressive list indeed.

It could be worse...
... God only knows how.

Last edited by sylla1; November 8th, 2012 at 02:50 PM.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 10:32 PM   #416

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Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
Currently 22 of the 55 poorest nations of this Planet...
(i.e. lowest GDP per capita according to CIA World Factbook 2012)
are former colonies of the British Empire.
Actually including the vast majority of the population of the former Imperial territory.
Especially of the conquered native population...

An impressive list indeed.

It could be worse...
... God only knows how.
Statistically obvious, considering the extension of the British Empire.

Anyway, making a comparison with the other colonial Empires ...

France:

only Lebanon promised something good.

Spain:


Just Mexico is promising something. For the rest ...

Portugal:

here probably we can see the most "positive" colonial empire, thinking to Brazil.

Italy:

I prefer avoid details ...

Netherlands:

only today in south east Asia we are noting something

Belgium:


Congo is among the poorest countries.

So, in my questionable opinion we can say that the British Empire has been the most positive one for its former colonies, among the European colonial empires.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 10:51 PM   #417

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Originally Posted by AlpinLuke View Post
Statistically obvious, considering the extension of the British Empire.

Anyway, making a comparison with the other colonial Empires ...

France:

only Lebanon promised something good.

Spain:


Just Mexico is promising something. For the rest ...

Portugal:

here probably we can see the most "positive" colonial empire, thinking to Brazil.

Italy:

I prefer avoid details ...

Netherlands:

only today in south east Asia we are noting something

Belgium:


Congo is among the poorest countries.

So, in my questionable opinion we can say that the British Empire has been the most positive one for its former colonies, among the European colonial empires.
The Portugese empire also included Macau, Timor and quite a few other territories, like Guinea, Angola, Mozambique that have not really had a good ride, since the Portugese left. Bit of massacre, genocide, civil war, African kleptocracy--nothing out of the ordinary.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 11:18 PM   #418

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
Currently 22 of the 55 poorest nations of this Planet...
(i.e. lowest GDP per capita according to CIA World Factbook 2012)
are former colonies of the British Empire.
Actually including the vast majority of the population of the former Imperial territory.
Especially of the conquered native population...

An impressive list indeed.

It could be worse...
... God only knows how.
Let's look at it another way-- of the 191 soverign Nations on the CIA list 65 are former British territories and another 6 formerly under British control at some time. Of the top 30 counties by GDP per capita, 20 are former British Territories. Of the bottom 20 only 5 were former British or part British territories and all of those were far richer before independence.
Statistics can prove anything and I have statistics to prove that they do.
I would also point out the CIA were the people who calculated that Saddam Hussein had WMDs and predicted that Russia would run out of oil by 1980
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Old November 9th, 2012, 12:48 AM   #419

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Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
Let's look at it another way-- of the 191 soverign Nations on the CIA list 65 are former British territories and another 6 formerly under British control at some time. Of the top 30 counties by GDP per capita, 20 are former British Territories. Of the bottom 20 only 5 were former British or part British territories and all of those were far richer before independence.
Statistics can prove anything and I have statistics to prove that they do.
I would also point out the CIA were the people who calculated that Saddam Hussein had WMDs and predicted that Russia would run out of oil by 1980
And it's all to be demonstrated that the condition of poverty of those 22 countries is due overall [or even only] to past British domain ...
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Old November 9th, 2012, 01:03 AM   #420

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
Let's look at it another way-- of the 191 soverign Nations on the CIA list 65 are former British territories and another 6 formerly under British control at some time. Of the top 30 counties by GDP per capita, 20 are former British Territories. Of the bottom 20 only 5 were former British or part British territories and all of those were far richer before independence.
Statistics can prove anything and I have statistics to prove that they do.
I would also point out the CIA were the people who calculated that Saddam Hussein had WMDs and predicted that Russia would run out of oil by 1980
I think sylla1 is being a tad disingenuous, having looked at the CIA factbook listing the bottom 22 "nations" listed by GDP are almost all islands situated in the Pacific Ocean. A fairer comparison might be to look at nations with the lowest HDI, the Human Development Index, a comparative measure of life expectancy, literacy, education, standards of living, and quality of life. by this index the bottom 22 nations are all ex-colonies of either France, Portugal or Italy.
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