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Old November 9th, 2012, 02:37 AM   #421

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Originally Posted by Belisarius View Post
I think sylla1 is being a tad disingenuous, having looked at the CIA factbook listing the bottom 22 "nations" listed by GDP are almost all islands situated in the Pacific Ocean. A fairer comparison might be to look at nations with the lowest HDI, the Human Development Index, a comparative measure of life expectancy, literacy, education, standards of living, and quality of life. by this index the bottom 22 nations are all ex-colonies of either France, Portugal or Italy.
Disingenuity is the nicest description of sylla1 that I have ever seen.
None of these lists really equate to the beneficence of otherwise of British rule or suzeranity in centuries past. Equatorial Guinea, a former Spanish possession is at 32 on the CIA list, well above Malaysia and Mexico who are in the low '60s. The per capita may have been improved by the massacre of one third of the population a few years ago just after Pemex, the Mexican oil company gained valuable contracts there.
As I said, I have statistics to prove anything you like,
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Old November 9th, 2012, 03:02 AM   #422
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Originally Posted by Belisarius View Post
I think sylla1 is being a tad disingenuous, having looked at the CIA factbook listing the bottom 22 "nations" listed by GDP are almost all islands situated in the Pacific Ocean. A fairer comparison might be to look at nations with the lowest HDI, the Human Development Index, a comparative measure of life expectancy, literacy, education, standards of living, and quality of life. by this index the bottom 22 nations are all ex-colonies of either France, Portugal or Italy.
And all but 2 are in Africa.

The causality of anything at all here is far from clear.

Is it the colonial administration?

Conditions specific to colonising Africa in the first place?

Conditions specific to the situation of decolonisation (like the Portugese being hell-bent on trying to force them to remain in their colonial fold, well after it made sense anymore for Portugal even)?

The Cold War effects? (African developing nations in particular losing decades for getting on an at the time seemingly promising bandwagon of rapid development by adopting Soviet-style economic practices most of all.)

Or maybe a little of everything?

Conclusions? Perhaps that to make yourself look good in retrospect, pick your targets of colonisation carefully, and go for settler colonialism if at all possible?

Of course, then not colonising invariably unwilling locals would be a very good idea.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 07:47 AM   #423
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Originally Posted by Belisarius View Post
I think sylla1 is being a tad disingenuous, having looked at the CIA factbook listing the bottom 22 "nations" listed by GDP are almost all islands situated in the Pacific Ocean. A fairer comparison might be to look at nations with the lowest HDI, the Human Development Index, a comparative measure of life expectancy, literacy, education, standards of living, and quality of life. by this index the bottom 22 nations are all ex-colonies of either France, Portugal or Italy.
With respect, I find this commentary a bit disingenuous.

To begin with, that's not what I have done.

Yours truly did check the bottom 55 nations of the 191 listed by the GDP per capita list of the CIA Factbook 2012.

It only happened that 22 of them were former British colonies.

BTW the vast majority of them are actually not any "islands", as anyone could easily verify.

Besides, please remember that I have never ever singled out the evident noxious effects of the British colonialism over the vast majority (if not all) of the conquered native populations from any analogous effect of the French, Portuguese, Italian or in a nutshell any single known Colonialism.

If fact, I have most explicitly stated myriad times that I'm not doing that; au contraire.

That said, the obvious problem of more complex indexes like the HDI is that they are methodologically biased against the measurement of the poorest nations.

In plain English, several of the most miserable nations of this Planet (former British colonies or not) tend to be excluded from the HDI due to insufficient data.

Needless to say, that is an inherent major bias.

Anyway, rest assured it would be my pleasure to help in the commentary of any such analysis eventually performed & shared with us here either by the proposer or any other Historumite.



And yes, Geezer; amazingly enough, these nations are often in Africa; God only knows the used selection criteria for the British colonies.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 08:05 AM   #424

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Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
With respect, I find this commentary a bit disingenuous.

To begin with, that's not what I have done.

Yours truly did check the bottom 55 nations of the 191 listed by the GDP per capita list of the CIA Factbook 2012.

It only happened that 22 of them were former British colonies.

BTW the vast majority of them are actually not any "islands", as anyone could easily verify.

Besides, please remember that I have never ever singled out the evident noxious effects of the British colonialism over the vast majority (if not all) of the conquered native populations from any analogous effect of the French, Portuguese, Italian or in a nutshell any single known Colonialism.

If fact, I have most explicitly stated myriad times that I'm not doing that; au contraire.

That said, the obvious problem of more complex indexes like the HDI is that they are methodologically biased against the measurement of the poorest nations.

In plain English, several of the most miserable nations of this Planet (former British colonies or not) tend to be excluded from the HDI due to insufficient data.

Needless to say, that is an inherent major bias.

Anyway, rest assured it would be my pleasure to help in the commentary of any such analysis eventually performed & shared with us here either by the proposer or any other Historumite.

And yes, Geezer; amazingly enough, these nations are often in Africa; God only knows the used selection criteria for the British colonies.
Apologies, I used the list provided by Wiki here: List of countries by GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Perhaps you could expand on your methodogy and specify which countries you meant, if only to avoid any accusations of "cherry picking" your data?
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Old November 9th, 2012, 08:21 AM   #425

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
With respect, I find this commentary a bit disingenuous.

To begin with, that's not what I have done.

Yours truly did check the bottom 55 nations of the 191 listed by the GDP per capita list of the CIA Factbook 2012.

It only happened that 22 of them were former British colonies.

BTW the vast majority of them are actually not any "islands", as anyone could easily verify.

Besides, please remember that I have never ever singled out the evident noxious effects of the British colonialism over the vast majority (if not all) of the conquered native populations from any analogous effect of the French, Portuguese, Italian or in a nutshell any single known Colonialism.

If fact, I have most explicitly stated myriad times that I'm not doing that; au contraire.

That said, the obvious problem of more complex indexes like the HDI is that they are methodologically biased against the measurement of the poorest nations.

In plain English, several of the most miserable nations of this Planet (former British colonies or not) tend to be excluded from the HDI due to insufficient data.

Needless to say, that is an inherent major bias.

Anyway, rest assured it would be my pleasure to help in the commentary of any such analysis eventually performed & shared with us here either by the proposer or any other Historumite.



And yes, Geezer; amazingly enough, these nations are often in Africa; God only knows the used selection criteria for the British colonies.
No matter, when the facts don't fit your theory--just change the facts!
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Old November 9th, 2012, 08:28 AM   #426
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No matter, when the facts don't fit your theory--just change the facts!
Doctor, cure yourself.

Any other incredibly relevant piece of your mind you would like to share with us here?

Just not to derail this nice thread any more, even maybe close it or send it to the Chamber (God forbids!)
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Old November 9th, 2012, 09:05 AM   #427

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Doctor, cure yourself.

Any other incredibly relevant piece of your mind you would like to share with us here?

Just not to derail this nice thread any more, even maybe close it or send it to the Chamber (God forbids!)
You are becoming repetitive. You posted the exact words on another thread a few days ago.
The lists of statistics of GDP, GDP per capita, PPP, HDI etc, etc etc. are designed to prove whatever the interlocuter wants. Anyone who has had a real job in Corporate or Government knows that statistics and surveys there to be be used to prove whatever you want them to.
You yourself have just distained the HDI survey as it doesn't suit your purpose or the conclusion you already arrived at.
The table of GDP per capita gives a vague, broad sweep of the wealth of a country, but it has its flaws: places like Jersey, the Isle of Man and Aruba appear to be fabulously rich--yet one doesn't see many Manxmen buying up Manhattan or Kinightsbridge. Simple reason-- those places are funnels for half of the world's funny money--not a dollar or a yen or a Mexican drug peso benefits the people of those territories but loops back to people who stole it in other countries and the banks who are handling the channeling.
The table of GDP by PPP is equally an exercise in mental onanism. That table shows China and India in 2nd and 3rd place, way ahead of the UK, France, Germany and Britain--even Switzerland is at position 36! Does this mean that the Chinese and Indians are that far ahead in wealth, social wellbeing and lifestyle than the Swiss? I think not.
Perhaps you would like to draw up a table of massacres of the people by the ruling classes as a comparison of heritage, the British have never been very good at that.

Last edited by Ancientgeezer; November 9th, 2012 at 09:10 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old November 9th, 2012, 09:23 AM   #428
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Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
You are becoming repetitive. You posted the exact words on another thread a few days ago.
The lists of statistics of GDP, GDP per capita, PPP, HDI etc, etc etc. are designed to prove whatever the interlocuter wants. Anyone who has had a real job in Corporate or Government knows that statistics and surveys there to be be used to prove whatever you want them to.
You yourself have just distained the HDI survey as it doesn't suit your purpose or the conclusion you already arrived at.
The table of GDP per capita gives a vague, broad sweep of the wealth of a country, but it has its flaws: places like Jersey, the Isle of Man and Aruba appear to be fabulously rich--yet one doesn't see many Manxmen buying up Manhattan or Kinightsbridge. Simple reason-- those places are funnels for half of the world's funny money--not a dollar or a yen or a Mexican drug peso benefits the people of those territories but loops back to people who stole it in other countries and the banks who are handling the channeling.
The table of GDP by PPP is equally an exercise in mental onanism. That table shows China and India in 2nd and 3rd place, way ahead of the UK, France, Germany and Britain--even Switzerland is at position 36! Does this mean that the Chinese and Indians are that far ahead in wealth, social wellbeing and lifestyle than the Swiss? I think not.
Perhaps you would like to draw up a table of massacres of the people by the ruling classes as a comparison of heritage, the British have never been very good at that.
Some British could have fooled Mankind.
(Perhaps you would like to imagine any nice pic by Holbein of our dearly totalitarian Henry VIII here)


Sorry, I entirely missed your careful, unbiased, and detailed analysis on the HDI or any other complex international social indicator.
Or any other relevant piece of mind, for that matter.

Would you be so kind to post it again?
Thanks in advance
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Old November 9th, 2012, 09:27 AM   #429

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Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
Some British could have fooled Mankind.
(Perhaps you would like to imagine any nice pic by Holbein of our dearly totalitarian Henry VIII here)


Sorry, I entirely missed your careful, unbiased, and detailed analysis on the HDI or any other complex international social indicator.
Or any other relevant piece of mind, for that matter.

Would you be so kind to post it again?
Thanks in advance
Your post is incomprehensible.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 09:32 AM   #430

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
Some British could have fooled Mankind.
(Perhaps you would like to imagine any nice pic by Holbein of our dearly totalitarian Henry VIII here)


Sorry, I entirely missed your careful, unbiased, and detailed analysis on the HDI or any other complex international social indicator.
Or any other relevant piece of mind, for that matter.

Would you be so kind to post it again?
Thanks in advance
Before he does that, would you care to answer my question? Thanks in advance.
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