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Old November 7th, 2012, 03:22 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Black Dog View Post
The UN is NOT the final arbiter...
Yes it is
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Old November 7th, 2012, 03:24 PM   #52
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What is a 'Brit'? There is one (totally artificial) State called the United Kingdom. If all the people in Suffolk decide it is a separate country, it is, like Cornwall. You think just like Hitler, man!
All countries/states are artificial (ie: man made)

How can you think they are natural?

Btw, Cornwall is not a country - it's a county
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Old November 8th, 2012, 06:03 PM   #53

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A country is an agreement between at least two people.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 11:18 PM   #54

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Originally Posted by Poly View Post
All countries/states are artificial (ie: man made)

How can you think they are natural?

Btw, Cornwall is not a country - it's a county
Whilst you're technically correct, are you aware of Cornish history and the nationalist movement?

Cornwall has as much claim to be a country as Wales, really. It's just the stance of government is different.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 01:19 AM   #55

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I would like to propose the declaration of Kent, currently a county in England as an independent country.
Kent was an independent nation as Cantium before the Roman invasions. Before Caesar's expedition Cantium had good diplomatic relations with Gaul and with Rome from its apital at Durovernon which were damaged by Caesar's unwarranted incursion.
The Roman himself wrote:-
"Ex his omnibus longe sunt humanissimi qui Cantium incolunt, quae regio est maritima omnis, neque multum a Gallica differunt consuetudine.""Of all these (British tribes), by far the most civilised are they who dwell in Kent, which is entirely a maritime region, and who differ but little from the Gauls in their customs".
In the years between Caesar and the Claudian invasion, Cantium became highly Romanised to the extent that Roman style roads, villas and temples in stone had already been erected and Claudius's troops would have felt quite at home. During the Roman period Kent became the main entrepot for Roman Britain through the ports of Dubris (Dover), Rutupiae (Richborough), Regulbium (Reculver) and Portus Lemanis (Lympne).
Under the Flavians Kent, especially Cantiacorum (Canterbury), became a centre of religious observence and a retirement area for wealthy civil servants.
When the Romans left, Kent became the centre or Romano-British administration and the centre of civilised life with the last major pre-Saxon leader, Vortigern, being based in Kent.
It was Vortigern who welcomed the first recorded Norse leaders, Hengist and Horsa, to settle in Kent.
The post Roman settlers of Kent were not Saxon, but Jutes, and they gave the country a different language from other areas of post-Roman Britain and Kent became its own Kingdom and Nation between c.400AD and the early eleventh century. "Kentish" was barely intelligible to Londoners until the 15th Century.
Kent was the first part of Anglo-Saxon Britain to accept the reintroduction of Christianity with the arrival of St. Augustine and his establishment of Churches in Canterbury and Rochester and so it was Kentish monks and friars who went out to convert the rest of England.
When William of Normandy invaded England, he landed in Sussex rather than Kent, being afraid of the locals' power and carefully avoided Kentish territory on his march to London. Kent's motto "Invicta",meaning undefeated has existed ever since as a sign that the land was never conquered and the Normans granted Kent special status in recognition of this.

Fast track to the modern day,Kent accounts for 13% of Britain's GDP, it controls access to Europe and the world through the Channel Tunnel the ports and Gatwick airport. Apart from the Medway Towns and Bromley that could be ceded to London, the population have fewer tattoos and body piercing than other parts of Britain and this many other reasons qualify it for nationhood seperate from Englandistan.
The KLA ( Kentish Liberation Army) is recruiting, meet us at our secret headquarters at the Barley Mow in Bearstead on any Friday.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 02:49 AM   #56
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Am I the only one who thinks this is a silly argument?

As I can see, there's a variety of colloquial and official definitions of words like 'country' and 'nation' being used here. Poster A argues that a particular concept fits definition A; while poster B retorts that they're wrong because this concept doesn't meet definition B. Or, to put it another way, you're all arguing past each other about nothing at all.

On a nitpicking note, someone said upthread (too lazy to check who) that the UK doesn't have an official language. It does - English is the official language of the UK, and it has a further six official minority languages (the four Celtic languages plus Scots English and Ulster-Scots English).
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Old November 9th, 2012, 02:59 AM   #57

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Am I the only one who thinks this is a silly argument?

As I can see, there's a variety of colloquial and official definitions of words like 'country' and 'nation' being used here. Poster A argues that a particular concept fits definition A; while poster B retorts that they're wrong because this concept doesn't meet definition B. Or, to put it another way, you're all arguing past each other about nothing at all.

On a nitpicking note, someone said upthread (too lazy to check who) that the UK doesn't have an official language. It does - English is the official language of the UK, and it has a further six official minority languages (the four Celtic languages plus Scots English and Ulster-Scots English).
Since when has an argument being silly meant it isn't worth having?
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Old November 11th, 2012, 04:19 PM   #58

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Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
Fast track to the modern day,Kent accounts for 13% of Britain's GDP, it controls access to Europe and the world through the Channel Tunnel the ports and Gatwick airport. Apart from the Medway Towns and Bromley that could be ceded to London, the population have fewer tattoos and body piercing than other parts of Britain and this many other reasons qualify it for nationhood seperate from Englandistan.
The KLA ( Kentish Liberation Army) is recruiting, meet us at our secret headquarters at the Barley Mow in Bearstead on any Friday.
I'll take you up on your offer next time I'm in that part of the world. We'll plan how to monopolise the use of force in Kent and resist the encroachment of the government in London. I'll then help you set up diplomatic relations with the Hutt River Province!
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Old November 12th, 2012, 03:05 AM   #59

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Originally Posted by Poly View Post
Yes it is
No it isn't, and before we descend into pantomime, allow me to elaborate.

In international law, recognition is and has always been a bilateral process, State A recognises state B and vice versa, the fact that states C and D do not recognise state B is irrelevant. Recognition develops in a series of bilateral agreements between states which establish formal diplomatic relations.

Eventually state B will acheve a complex set of bilateral relationships which will serve to delineate and guarantee it's borders and who constitutes it's citizenry, how and with whom it can trade, make alliances with, etc. the whole range of diplomatic activity.

Joining the U.N. merely allows a state to have a voice in making international law, take advantage of the various U.N. suppport programs and provides a forum where it can raise issues for settlement that it cannot do in the course of normal diplomacy.
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