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Old November 8th, 2012, 12:19 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
It's a good list;; the own methodology ostensibly exponentially improves while talking about the invasions by other powers.

You may add this one Paraguay expedition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So sending some naval ships do intimidate Paraguay to agree to certain things after a Paraguayan ship fired on a US Navy ship constitutes an invasion? How many US soldiers set foot on Paraguayan soil? Seems like it was Paraguay that attacked the US.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 12:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by betgo View Post
So sending some naval ships do intimidate Paraguay to agree to certain things after a Paraguayan ship fired on a US Navy ship constitutes an invasion? How many US soldiers set foot on Paraguayan soil? Seems like it was Paraguay that attacked the US.
I'm not aware of any definition of "invasion" that may include quantitative criteria, and certainly not the working definition carefully used by Mr Laycock (the OP)
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Old November 8th, 2012, 03:48 PM   #23
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I'm not aware of any definition of "invasion" that may include quantitative criteria, and certainly not the working definition carefully used by Mr Laycock (the OP)
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: an act of invading; especially : incursion of an army for conquest or plunder

The act of invading, especially the entrance of an armed force into a territory to conquer.
Invasion is like what Nazi Germany did to various countries. The US invaded Mexico, Canada, the Confederacy, Phillippines, Cuba, Italy, France, Granada, Panama, etc.

Sending some gunboats to threaten is not an invasion. Supplying arms to parties in a civil war is not invasion. Warning a country not to invade another country is not an invasion.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 03:53 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Belgarion View Post
...negotiation or payment...
By this reckoning the USA has invaded the UK

Negotiation (ie: forming of alliances that sees US forces stationed in a foreign country) does not IMO constitute an invasion

An invasion, by definition, is against the invaded country's wishes
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Old November 8th, 2012, 03:56 PM   #25
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Invasion is like what Nazi Germany did to various countries. The US invaded Mexico, Canada, the Confederacy, Phillippines, Cuba, Italy, France, Granada, Panama, etc.

Sending some gunboats to threaten is not an invasion. Supplying arms to parties in a civil war is not invasion. Warning a country not to invade another country is not an invasion.
Your own subjective opinion, not any regular definition.

Under the criteria of either the Merriam-Webster or Mr Laycock it definitively qualifies.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 04:33 PM   #26
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Your own subjective opinion, not any regular definition.

Under the criteria of either the Merriam-Webster or Mr Laycock it definitively qualifies.
My use of the word invasion is standard. Laycock's use of the term is overly broad.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 04:43 PM   #27
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My use of the word invasion is standard. Laycock's use of the term is overly broad.
I must have missed the standard academic source you should be quoting here.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 09:55 PM   #28

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Quote:
Originally Posted by betgo View Post
Invasion is like what Nazi Germany did to various countries. The US invaded Mexico, Canada, the Confederacy, Phillippines, Cuba, Italy, France, Granada, Panama, etc.

Sending some gunboats to threaten is not an invasion. Supplying arms to parties in a civil war is not invasion. Warning a country not to invade another country is not an invasion.
You are probably right, but the Laycock book set the bar here. If the Knights of Malta's request that they join the British Empire and be placed under protection against Napoleon, or the Swazi King's similar request for protection against the Boers can be called "invasions", then the term is totally open to abuse.


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By this reckoning the USA has invaded the UK

Negotiation (ie: forming of alliances that sees US forces stationed in a foreign country) does not IMO constitute an invasion

An invasion, by definition, is against the invaded country's wishes
Admiral Perry's fleet did not really "invade" Japan, but there was not a lot of difference between his actions and a couple of black limousines pulling up outside a corner store in New York and a bunch of mustauchioed gentlemen with baseball bats "negotiating" a trade deal with the owner, is there?

As for the US "invading" England in 1943. I expect the poor farm labourer at Steeple Morton or some such place was a bit cheesed off that he couldn't compete for the village girls with hundreds of better looking and better paid Yanks from the airbase, nor get served in the pub, nor get a night's sleep--he may well have thought that he had been invaded.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 02:40 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
You are probably right, but the Laycock book set the bar here. If the Knights of Malta's request that they join the British Empire and be placed under protection against Napoleon, or the Swazi King's similar request for protection against the Boers can be called "invasions", then the term is totally open to abuse.




Admiral Perry's fleet did not really "invade" Japan, but there was not a lot of difference between his actions and a couple of black limousines pulling up outside a corner store in New York and a bunch of mustauchioed gentlemen with baseball bats "negotiating" a trade deal with the owner, is there?

As for the US "invading" England in 1943. I expect the poor farm labourer at Steeple Morton or some such place was a bit cheesed off that he couldn't compete for the village girls with hundreds of better looking and better paid Yanks from the airbase, nor get served in the pub, nor get a night's sleep--he may well have thought that he had been invaded.

It would be interesting what the total would be if you took a narrower definition. There are still a lot of US invasions. I agree that Admiral Perry engaged in intimidation, but that is not an invasion IMO. I would consider an invasion when soldiers enter by force. That would still include lots cases of "send the marines" when the US didn't like something in the western hemisphere. Obviously, North Korea, and probably South Korea. Libya in the Jefferson administration. In Iceland the US took over British occupation after a British occupation, so I consider that borderline. The participation in multinational forces intervening in China in the 19th century has to be an invasion, but I would consider intervention in the Russian Civil War borderline.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 06:20 AM   #30
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If any ad hoc designed definition may be narrow enough, arguably any power may have been able to conquer any fifth of any Planet without any single invasion.





On the other hand, one could always try good ol' Merriam-Webster.

I.e. exactly what Mr. Laycock more strictly has done.
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