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Old November 13th, 2012, 09:08 AM   #31

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Originally Posted by Terranovan View Post
Meh I'll agree this concept is going in that direction because people only comment on what they know.

However I think it's important to understand that the whole thread is based on the premise that race as the way we know it, will change in the very near future. Also I think it's important to understand that most people here are very caught up in a european view of race, again because its what people know.

It's a view that is trapped in european history.

However if you look to places like brazil, singapore, the carribean, or even parts of africa you'll understand that where were headed race as we know it won't make sense.

China soon will need to start large scale immigration, non hispanic whites in the us is declining rapidly in the states.

Europe's best hope to avoid economic stagnation in immigration.

The world is changing so I really believe what I'm talking about is unavoidable.
I think you're wrong (I would do, I'm a European )

The whole thread is a bit confused, in my opinion, because you're not arguing from a consistent place.

Firstly, you ask what will we call ethnic Europeans in the future? There are many answers, but I'll continue being English, and I'm sure Iolo will continue being Welsh, for example. I'll also continue being white, at least until someone comes up with a better adjective for pale-skinned northern Europeans.

Then you quite rightly pointed out that we were considering it from a European perspective, and in North America the situation where white people such as yourself have a European heritage that you can't specifically tie down to any one country, etc. Or situations where So I guess American-European or European-American would be a starting point?

And now, you're arguing for wholesale worldwide emigration to revive failing economies? I don't believe that will work It's not low populations thats keeping the European economies down.

Similarly, China has more than enough manpower available.

Even if it was to happen as you imagine, and lets say that population of Europe doubled overnight, you wouldn't experience the same effects here as in North America over the last two hundred years because the sub-national, national and supra-national 'European' identities are already well established and aren't going anywhere. The situation in North America was different, because of various things, deliberate or otherwise, that gave them an essentially empty landscape to move in on.

There'll be more mixed race people and more multi-ethnic people, or however you want to say it, but they'll always be predominantly either 'Chinese' or European' or 'American' or 'Canadian' etc, they just might have a different adjective applied first, e.g. 'white, 'black', 'Asian', 'Christian' etc.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 05:54 PM   #32

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Originally Posted by Gudenrath View Post
I don't get this obsession with race that some people seems to have.
All we are is blood and DNA, why not respect the sacrifices your ancestors made for you to ever be born and have the freedom to say whatever you like.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 06:44 PM   #33
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All we are is blood and DNA, why not respect the sacrifices your ancestors made for you to ever be born and have the freedom to say whatever you like.
Exactly how are the respect to the own ancestors and the freedom of expression related at all with the obsession with race pointed out by our Gudenrath?
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Old November 14th, 2012, 01:36 AM   #34
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I think you're wrong (I would do, I'm a European )

The whole thread is a bit confused, in my opinion, because you're not arguing from a consistent place.
Because I'm talking about the future, in multiple countries with millions of peoples each situation is different from the next.
Firstly, you ask what will we call ethnic Europeans in the future? There are many answers, but I'll continue being English, and I'm sure Iolo will continue being Welsh, for example. I'll also continue being white, at least until someone comes up with a better adjective for pale-skinned northern Europeans.
Well the name of the game is coming up with a better adjective. Anyhow again I don't think folk are gonna be called arab britians in a century. You can believe what you want however I think the change will happen.
Then you quite rightly pointed out that we were considering it from a European perspective, and in North America the situation where white people such as yourself have a European heritage that you can't specifically tie down to any one country, etc. Or situations where So I guess American-European or European-American would be a starting point?

And now, you're arguing for wholesale worldwide emigration to revive failing economies? I don't believe that will work It's not low populations thats keeping the European economies down.
I don't think I'm arguing, the demographic predicitions are well established.
Similarly, China has more than enough manpower available.
It also has a one child policy and a severe gender inbalance. By 2035 china is gonna be in severe need of immigration.
Even if it was to happen as you imagine, and lets say that population of Europe doubled overnight, you wouldn't experience the same effects here as in North America over the last two hundred years because the sub-national, national and supra-national 'European' identities are already well established and aren't going anywhere. The situation in North America was different, because of various things, deliberate or otherwise, that gave them an essentially empty landscape to move in on.
Well this is the million dollar question. First off no one is talking about doubling the european population over night. But simply growing the population by 0.5 percent per year would require a massive amount of immigration. At the very least certain cities will have immigrants as the majority of the population. So either way europeans will likely face a identity change.
There'll be more mixed race people and more multi-ethnic people, or however you want to say it, but they'll always be predominantly either 'Chinese' or European' or 'American' or 'Canadian' etc, they just might have a different adjective applied first, e.g. 'white, 'black', 'Asian', 'Christian' etc.
This last part is not likely at all. One thing people of mix race detest more than anything is trying to be pigeon holed.

Anyhow I'm done talking about contemporary politics in europe. If you can't accept the assumption that things will change greatly in europe in the progressive future than simply don't post in this thread.

Last edited by Terranovan; November 14th, 2012 at 01:46 AM.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 01:44 AM   #35
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Exactly how are the respect to the own ancestors and the freedom of expression related at all with the obsession with race pointed out by our Gudenrath?
Meh I made this thread with the intent to get past out dated ideas of culture and race. However people seem to bring there own personal baggage into this.

Talking about one's heritage etc, shouldn't be shunned on a historical site. Most people are looking for where they come from in one way or another. Some people identify will empires and nation states, and some people identity with the stories of people's especially ones they descend from.

So race in a sense is as natural to talk about as anything else because it's the human side of things and it should never be shunned. However race/cultural politics in the direct sense is always a waste of FING time.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 04:29 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Terranovan View Post
Meh I made this thread with the intent to get past out dated ideas of culture and race. However people seem to bring there own personal baggage into this.

Talking about one's heritage etc, shouldn't be shunned on a historical site. Most people are looking for where they come from in one way or another. Some people identify will empires and nation states, and some people identity with the stories of people's especially ones they descend from.

So race in a sense is as natural to talk about as anything else because it's the human side of things and it should never be shunned. However race/cultural politics in the direct sense is always a waste of FING time.
And all this time I was thinking the OP was just about ethnic semantics...

Just for the record, exactly which "out dated ideas" & "personal baggage" should "never be shunned" about the "natural" "heritage"?

"Westerner race" or "Christian race"?
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Old November 14th, 2012, 04:56 AM   #37
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I suppose I take it for granted that all this old stuff will have died out. What, ultimately, does it matter where we chance to have come from? It is where we are and what we are doing now that counts.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 09:05 AM   #38

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Exactly how are the respect to the own ancestors and the freedom of expression related at all with the obsession with race pointed out by our Gudenrath?
You just don't get it, amigo
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Old November 14th, 2012, 11:39 AM   #39
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That's fine in europe itself, however in the new world things get mirky rather quickly. I' part scots/irish/english/french. I have no idea how much of each I am, all I know is my family is obviously from western europe.

It'd be far easier for me to say I'm white.
Most of the French, English, Dutch, German, Hungarian, Russian, Polish whatever are also mixed people, they have ancestors from other ethnic groups also, but it doesn't prevent them to identify with only one, what they feel is dominant for their identity. I don't see why you couldn't just identify as Canadian as i see that is the biggest reported ancestry group in Canadian census anyways, so you wouldn't be alone with that. Or as you are native English speaker and your ancestors mostly came from the British isles, maybe English or British-Canadian would be the closest? Or just Canadian of Western European origin? White as an identity sounds quite bizarre for me, it is just a physical athropological feature. Afghans for example are also white, do you feel some common identity with them?
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Old November 14th, 2012, 12:30 PM   #40

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You just don't get it, amigo
I don't get it either, but I am rather interested in hearing your theory regarding the connection between race and freedom of speech. That's a new one I haven't heard of before.
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