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Old November 23rd, 2012, 03:12 PM   #61

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Sorry but that is just ridiculous! Its like saying using the words Brits, Yanks or Ozzies is demeaning.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion. But please don't use it on this site.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 03:34 PM   #62

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The atomic bombings I don't view as a blunder at all. It ended the war without having to spill any Allied blood in a costly invasion of the Japanese home islands, saved the lives of countless thousands in Japanese occupied territories, and although I doubt it figured high in the considerations of American war planners at the time, it ultimately saved Japanese lives. Millions of Japanese, both civilian and military, would have died in an invasion of Japan.

I also, quite frankly, thing some people make too big of a fuss about the moral implications of the atomic bombings. How are they any worse than the conventional bombings of German or Japanese cities, which by the way, also killed a lot more people than the atomic bombings? I can certainly sympathize with those who criticize both, but not those who only single out the latter. What difference does it make if you kill 80,000 people with 1 bomb or 10,000 bombs? Those 80,000 are just as dead either way.
I criticize both, however there is a very big difference when it comes to a nuclear weapon... And that is the time factor involved with sheltering for a single A-bomb. They were and still are difficult to prepare for and hide from compared to conventional bombings. While they are both indiscriminate towards civilians the nuclear weapon is particularly so, because most civilians do not have time to reach shelter before the detonation. Whereas with conventional bombing the huge formations took some time to blanket a city and many saved themselves by going underground as soon as the sirens sounded.

Conventional bombing can also take months or even years to destroy an enemy's cities, allowing evacuation of women and children... as was the case in Japan and Germany, while a nation with enough nuclear weaponry can do so in an afternoon, perhaps less.

The A-bombs did not end the war with Japan, The Japanese Emperor had been trying to start negotions for surrender for quite some time before the bombings because he knew that the Japanese military could no longer defend their people. Late in the war US conventional bombing runs were returning virtually unscathed. The war was finally ended without negotiation when the Soviets entered Manchuria and the Northern Japanese islands. The Japanese were well aware of what happened to big German industry in East Germany and were loath to surrender to the Soviets... However they could do business with the US, which was like them ...capitalist. Roosevelt knew that the Soviets, with their 300 divisions, could not be stopped except with a massive weapon. Indeed the US had no more than 90 divisions in Europe and far less than that in the Pacific to deal with this army in a conventional sense. No, the A-bombs were the first salvo of the Cold War.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 04:05 PM   #63
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Yes almost all of the senior officers where purged, and my understanding was that usually it was more than just being removed from the army. Most of them were Civil War veterans, some originally Imperial Russian officers and others old Bolshieviks. Stalin probably saw both backgrounds as threats. Not sure if many were really incompetent or disloyal.

Probably had a temporary effect of creating confusion in the military, but something that could be recovered from.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 04:25 PM   #64

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The Battle of Hrtgen Forest.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 05:44 PM   #65

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Stalingrad and the refusal by Hitler to withdraw when the Soviets broke through on the Axis flanks ranks as the single biggest mistake in the history of warfare. It was the turning point of the largest, most bloody war in history and its outcome shaped events into the 21th Century.

Had Hitler allowed Paulus to withdraw with the huge 6th Army still intact and concentrated more of his forces on one Soviet city at a time, he would have won more than he lost. By refusing the withdrawl he condemned the 6th to an almost complete oblivion, crushed morale throughout his armies and sent his armies into such indefensible positions that they never won another significant strategic battle on the Eastern front.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 05:58 PM   #66
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Stalingrad and the refusal by Hitler to withdraw when the Soviets broke through on the Axis flanks ranks as the single biggest mistake in the history of warfare. It was the turning point of the largest, most bloody war in history and its outcome shaped events into the 21th Century.

Had Hitler allowed Paulus to withdraw with the huge 6th Army still intact and concentrated more of his forces on one Soviet city at a time, he would have won more than he lost. By refusing the withdrawl he condemned the 6th to an almost complete oblivion, crushed morale throughout his armies and sent his armies into such indefensible positions that they never won another significant strategic battle on the Eastern front.
Whilst the decision to keep the 6th army in Stalingrad was a mistake (dictators often take a no retreat position - Stalin was just as at fault in Barbarossa) it was not the turning point of the war.

The war was lost with the failure of Typhoon and the failure to take Moscow.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 06:24 PM   #67

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Whilst the decision to keep the 6th army in Stalingrad was a mistake (dictators often take a no retreat position - Stalin was just as at fault in Barbarossa) it was not the turning point of the war.

The war was lost with the failure of Typhoon and the failure to take Moscow.
I am a great fan of the defense of Moscow and of the heroism of the Naval rifle brigades of the 1st. shock Army that drove the Panzas back over the Moscow-Volga Canal. However in saying that there are a few reasons why Moscow and mistakes made there were not the turning point of the war, and with respect and by inference were not the worst decision of the War.

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Hitler was confident that he could master the Red Army after the winter of 1941, because even though Army Group Centre (Heeresgruppe Mitte) had suffered heavy punishment west of Moscow the previous winter, 65% of its infantry had not been engaged and had been rested and re-equipped.
I recall reading that most of the German commanders confidently believed that they would take Moscow when they had normal conditions and logistical lines established in the Spring. Of course Hitler had other plans and began bleeding Group Center of soldiers to take Stalingrad. This battle in the South was without doubt the most mistake ridden of the war and none so irrepairable than Hitler's decision to forbid the withdrawl when his 6th Army was threatened with annihilation.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 06:57 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by rehabnonono View Post
I am a great fan of the defense of Moscow and of the heroism of the Naval rifle brigades of the 1st. shock Army that drove the Panzas back over the Moscow-Volga Canal. However in saying that there are a few reasons why Moscow and mistakes made there were not the turning point of the war, and with respect and by inference were not the worst decision of the War....
Do you really think that if the Germans had taken Stalingrad, that it would have changed the outcome of the war?
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 07:53 PM   #69

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greatest mistake of world war II is world war I
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 08:27 PM   #70

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Statistics taken from this collection or archival data about the purge in the army:

Всё , что ты знаешь - ложь . - ОЧИЩЕНИЕ: Кадровые чистки в *ККА 1937-1939 г.г.

Statistics show- 29% of Soviet military personnel had a higher education before the repressions. After them, the number became 38%. By 1941, the number had risen to 52%. Note that for the decade before the repressions, the number had remained stagnant at around 20-30%.

Anyone who looks at the Army Purge objectively will understand that it was in anticipation of a war that incompetent, disloyal, and foreign (German, Korean, etc) military personnel were removed from their post and better ones, trained in the arts of tank warfare instead of cavalry charges were promoted to their post.
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