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-   -   People who gave up on Civilization. (http://historum.com/general-history/50254-people-who-gave-up-civilization.html)

emperor of seleucid December 6th, 2012 06:10 PM

People who gave up on Civilization.
Do you guys know a list of people who gave up on their civilizations.

Jake10 December 6th, 2012 07:52 PM

Do you mean gave up as in defected to an opposing side?
Or, do you mean gave up as went to live by themselves like hermits?
Either way, since this is in general history, the list could be very long.

DwnSouthJukin December 6th, 2012 08:57 PM

The Western World. Its happening now.

Zeno December 6th, 2012 09:16 PM

You can put me on the list. (any civilization that forces me through the snow and rain at this hour is unworthy of me)

Alaric December 7th, 2012 01:29 AM


Originally Posted by Jake10 (Post 1279794)
Do you mean gave up as in defected to an opposing side?
Or, do you mean gave up as went to live by themselves like hermits?
Either way, since this is in general history, the list could be very long.

I suppose he means people who left their culture and became a part of another. As you noted, this list will be very long. Practically every immigrant in history would qualify.

Jake10 December 7th, 2012 01:39 AM


Originally Posted by Alaric (Post 1279970)
I suppose he means people who left their culture and became a part of another. As you noted, this list will be very long. Practically every immigrant in history would qualify.

Most immigrant families love their culture, but necessity makes them emigrate.

On the other hand, turncoats may qualify for this. After the Korean War, some American and British soldiers decided to defect to China. Most regretted it afterwards, but here is a list of them.


Adams, Clarence (Cpl.)
A soldier from Memphis, Tennessee. Adams cited racial discrimination in the United States as the reason he refused repatriation. While a prisoner, Adams took classes in Communist political theory, and afterwards lectured other prisoners in the camps. During the Vietnam War, Adams made propaganda broadcasts for Radio Hanoi from their Chinese office, telling black American soldiers not to fight:
You are supposedly fighting for the freedom of the Vietnamese, but what kind of freedom do you have at home, sitting in the back of the bus, being barred from restaurants, stores and certain neighborhoods, and being denied the right to vote. ... Go home and fight for equality in America.
He married a Chinese woman and lived in China until the increasingly anti-Western atmosphere of the Cultural Revolution led him to return to the United States in 1966. Adams was charged with treason by the House Un-American Activities Committee, but charges were dismissed.[2] He later started a Chinese restaurant business in Memphis. Clarence Adams died in 1999. His autobiography An American Dream: The Life of an African American Soldier and POW Who Spent Twelve Years in Communist China was posthumously published in 2007 by his daughter Della Adams and Lewis H. Carlson.[3]
Adams, Howard (Sgt.)
From Corsicana, Texas.[4] He worked in a paper factory in Jinan, China.[4] He refused all media requests for interviews.[5]
Belhomme, Albert Constant (Sgt.)
A native of Belgium who immigrated to the United States as a teenager. He lived in China for ten years, working in a paper factory in Jinan, before returning to Antwerp, Belgium.[5][4]
Bell, Otho Grayson (Cpl.)
Originally from Olympia, Washington.[4] In China was sent to a collective farm with William Cowart and Lewis Griggs (see below). Bell described himself, Cowart and Griggs as "the dummy bunch", saying they were sent to the farm because they could not learn Chinese. They returned to the United States together in July 1955, were arrested, but were released when it was found that the military no longer had jurisdiction over the defectors after they were dishonorably discharged. Bell died in 2003.[5]
Corden, Richard (Sgt.)
A native of Chicago, Illinois. He returned to the United States on 19 January, 1958. He was reported to live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin in 1961 and moved to Chicago in 1962.[4] He reportedly continued to favor communism even after returning to the United States.[5] He died in 1988.
Cowart, William (Cpl.)
Returned with Bell and Griggs (see below). Later the three soldiers sued for their back pay. The case went all the way to the United States Supreme Court, which held that Bell, Cowart and Griggs were entitled to their back pay from the time they were captured to the time they were dishonorably discharged.[6]
Douglas, Rufus (Sgt.)
Died in China a few months after arrival in 1954. The manner of his death is not certain but is believed to have been from natural causes.[5]
Dunn, John Roedel (Cpl.)
From Altoona, Pennsylvania.[4] He married a Czechoslovakian woman while in China and settled in Czechoslovakia in December 1959.[4][5]
Fortuna, Andrew (Sgt.)
Originally from Greenup, Kentucky.[4] He was awarded two Bronze Stars for his service in Korea before he was captured.[5] He returned to the United States on July 3, 1957. He worked in Portsmouth, Ohio in 1958, in Detroit, Michigan from 1963-64 and Chicago in 1964. He was reported to be in Gary, Indiana as of 1964.[4] He died in 1984.[5]
Griggs, Lewis Wayne
Returned with Bell and Cowart in 1955. He was listed as a senior majoring in sociology at Stephen F. Austin State University, graduating in 1959.[7][8] He died in 1984.
Hawkins, Samuel David (Pfc.)
From Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. He married a Russian woman in China and returned to the United States in February 1957, shortly before his wife was permitted to come to the United States. He successfully petitioned the government to change his discharge from dishonorable to other than honorable. He raised a family, and has given interviews to the press on the condition that his location not be disclosed.[5]
Pate, Arlie (Cpl.)
Worked in a paper mill before returning with Aaron Wilson (see below) in 1956. He died in 1999.[5]
Rush, Scott (Sgt.)
Married in China. After living in China ten years, he and his wife moved back to the United States and settled in the Midwest.[5]
Skinner, Lowell (Cpl. )
His mother begged him to come home over the radio at the time of the prisoner exchange, to no avail. He married in China, but left his wife behind when he came back to America in 1963. Later he would have problems with alcohol and spent six months in a psychiatric hospital. He died in 1995.[9]
Sullivan, LaRance
Came home in 1958 and died in 2001.[5]
Tenneson, Richard (Pfc.)
Came home in 1955. He went to Louisiana a few months later to welcome home fellow defector Aaron Wilson (see below). He settled in Utah before dying in 2001.[5]
Veneris, James (Pvt.)
From Vandergrift, Pennsylvania. [4] He stayed in China and became a dedicated communist, taking the Chinese name 'Lao Wen'. He worked in a steel mill, participated in the Great Leap Forward, hung posters during the Cultural Revolution, married three times, and had children. He visited the United States in 1976 but returned to China, where he is buried.[10]
Webb, Harold (Sgt.)
From Jacksonville, Florida[4]. He married a Polish woman in China and moved to Poland in 1960, reportedly settling in Katowice.[4][5] In 1988, he was given permission to settle in the United States.[5] He is the subject of the Youth Defense League song Turncoat about rejection of a Korean War defector seeking a return to America.[11][12]
White, William (Cpl.)
Married and got a bachelor's degree in international law while in China. He returned to the United States in 1965.[5]
Wills, Morris (Cpl.)
From Fort Ann, New York.[4] He played basketball for Peking University and got married in China. He came back to America in 1965 and got a job in the Asian Studies Department at Harvard University. His autobiography, Turncoat: An American's 12 Years in Communist China, was published in 1966. He died in 1999.[5]
Wilson, Aaron (Cpl.)
Originally from Urania, Louisiana.[4] He came home from China 06 December 1956[4]. Wilson married an American girl and worked in his Louisiana hometown's mill.[5]
Condron, Andrew (Marine)
Scotsman of 41 (Independent) Royal Marine Commando, was the only Briton to decline repatriation. He returned to Britain in 1960, and faced no disciplinary action.
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_and_British_defectors_in_the_Kore an_War]List of American and British defectors in the Korean War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

RusEvo December 7th, 2012 07:57 AM

Didn't the Japanese give up on much of their culture when the west forced its way in?

Soulstrider December 7th, 2012 08:07 AM


Originally Posted by RusEvo (Post 1280267)
Didn't the Japanese give up on much of their culture when the west forced its way in?

Hardly at all, if anything they managed to successfully keep their cultural identity while at the same time adapting the western practises.

Qymaen December 7th, 2012 08:11 AM

Do religious converts count?

BrowniesRule December 7th, 2012 09:13 AM

I don't know if you meant voluntarily or not, but here's my favorite;
The cambodian jungle girl;


She came out of the jungle, she didn't speak a language, she crawled instead of walking, and she was afraid of technological objects.

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