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Old December 10th, 2012, 02:28 AM   #41

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Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
If you wish to travel to any of the dumps and sewers North of the Limpopo, you can do a lot worse than Addis Abba. It’s a nice city and the Ethiopians are nice people although the countryside is reputed to be extremely dangerous, but then that’s just what the FCO and the US Dept of State say and what do they know? Not many tourists and aid workers were killed in the last few years.
Here’s some things that you probably don’t know about the country.
  • Until 1942 some 40% of the population were slaves.
  • For the past few years the country has been Africa’s second largest producer of maize and biggest producer of wheat.
  • The country has the highest population of livestock in Africa.
  • It is the world’s sixth biggest producer of Coffee and the third largest of Arabica.
  • Ethiopia is a medium-rainfall country often exceeding 1200mm per year. The last three years have seen a precipitation of 850 mm on average, this compares to Ireland’s 750mm last year. It receives even in dry years thirty per cent more than South Africa, three times that of Botswana and more even than lush, verdant Malawi. The country’s rains feed seven major rivers, not least the Blue Nile.
So why are they always hungry, complaining about water and holding their hands out for cash? US$3.5. billion in government to government foreign aid plus another US$600M in private aid in 2010.
Of course rainfall varies by region and sometimes the rains come late or early, so it would seem a pretty sensible idea to prioritise reservoirs and dams to trap runoff, and reticulation systems, boreholes and wells in lower rainfall areas. Such systems have been planned since the 1920s, but they never quite seem to happen with any success. The deep boreholes sunk by the Italians during their brief colonial rule were filled in by the returning Ethiopians out of spite. Irrigation schemes that have been implemented have mainly benefited the semi-state former collective farms and the many projects aimed at rural areas seem to run out of money after the consultants have been paid, the Mercedes Benz’ purchased, the International symposiums held and the award winning films made. The country also has virtually no roads (check google earth) and no reason to build them until some evil foreign mining company comes along and needs one to reach a mining concession. With poor communications the movement of foodstuffs from production area to market is difficult and expensive and in the past has been controlled by gangsters.
Simple question. Ethiopia produces 50% more grain products than the self-sufficient, higher-producing and exporting South Africa, yet in most years has to import grain..
Here is an article about the cause of the ever decreasing famines in Ethiopia:


http://allafrica.com/stories/2012113...html?viewall=1

And I thought all farms and land in Ethiopia were owned by the state. What does it mean to accuse the government of favouring state farms?


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Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
. The very recent and glaring negative examples of Zimbabwe can go without saying.
Oh do tell us about Zimbabwe. Tell us a tale about magical white farmers who by virtue of their white skin made things grow in Zimbabwe and how the Blacks just messed it all up. Please:

Zimbabwe's Land Reform: Myths and Realities (African Issues): Ian Scoones et al.: 9781847010247: Amazon.com: Books
Zimbabwe's Land Reform: Myths and Realities (African Issues): Ian Scoones et al.: 9781847010247: Amazon.com: Books


Last edited by mansamusa; December 10th, 2012 at 02:38 AM.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 06:02 AM   #42

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Originally Posted by mansamusa View Post
The Apartheid mind of a white South African. White myth making and fantasy. What is it with you? Are you accussing Africans of blaming Chinese now for their porblems, because Africans seem frequently happy with the alternative provided by the Chinese.
A reading of David Bullard's article (not mine!) would reveal to even the most rabid Black racist that he was having a dig at the sort of crap that anti-white losers and bed-wetters are always spouting about White people being to blame for their failures. Those who actually know about local South African politics will remember that the piece appeared during increasing coverage of the semi-literate Julius Malema's anti-white rants. Most illuminating is that after David was fired from his job he received equal support from both Black and White journalists.

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It is the likes of imperialist apologists like you and the Western media which promotes BS propaganda about China in Africa, accussing then of all sports of silly lies.
Yes, some Africans are quite good at sports.

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In Ethiopia, famines are attributed to Chinese buying up land for commercial agriculture when Indians are the ones mostly investing in ethiopia--in unused uninhabited land where roads have been built by the government for the very purpose of attracting foreign investment.
Don't know where you get that accusation from. I referenced an Economist article that suggest that Saudi Arabian interests are investing in commercial farming--I did not however comment on it. As far as road production is concerned, the Ethiopian Roads Authority has been planning to build or repair 2500km of roads since 2001. There is a nice ring road around Addis and a pretty piece of tarmac to the airport--outside of that some, 38kms has been completed. However a long stretch is being built right now to Derba to service the Derba Cement Company. It has become a priority since Sheik Al-Amoudi, the Saudi who owns the cement plant, threatened to pull out unless the road he even offered to build himself after years of delay was not completed.

Quote:
China is accussed of building Infrastructure just for the purpose of extracting minerals when the vast majority of the infrastructure constructed has nothing to do with mineral wealth. In SA there was a recent article which accussed the Chinese of a grand plot where small shops were part of a grand conspiratorial scheme to take over:
China in Africa: The Real Story: New Low for South African Reporting on Chinese Immigrants


or even this:

China in Africa: The Real Story: The Chinese in Africa: The Economist Gets Some Things Right, Some Wrong

It is you and the Western media who are incresingly obsessed with Chinese in Africa because the Chinese have ousted the West as the most important strategic partner to Africa in terms of development or economics.
Regarding the second article, you may care to read the comments from Black Africans who disagree with the champagne and First-Class dining car author.
Funny how critics of Europeans fall like jackals on such crumbs without putting the whole article and the motivation of the writer in context--but then one could expect nothing else.

By the way, I actually have a post-Apartheid mentality. Acute observers will know the difference.

Last edited by Ancientgeezer; December 10th, 2012 at 06:33 AM.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 06:25 AM   #43

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Originally Posted by mansamusa View Post
Here is an article about the cause of the ever decreasing famines in Ethiopia:


allAfrica.com: Ethiopia: How Africa's First Commodity Exchange Revolutionized Ethiopia's Economy

And I thought all farms and land in Ethiopia were owned by the state. What does it mean to accuse the government of favouring state farms?
I referenced the establishment of this exchange ( a few years ago now) in my post with a link to the Economist article. No, all land is not State owned, however most of the "privatisation" has been criticised as a sham as much of the best and irrigated land has been hived off into "private" companies in which the State is the beneficial shareholder and the management government appointees. Peasant farming has benefited little from State-channeled aid--and thereby lies the problem.



Quote:
Oh do tell us about Zimbabwe. Tell us a tale about magical white farmers who by virtue of their white skin made things grow in Zimbabwe and how the Blacks just messed it all up. Please:

Zimbabwe's Land Reform: Myths and Realities (African Issues): Ian Scoones et al.: 9781847010247: Amazon.com: Books
Do I need to tell you? Agricultural production down 50% between 2001 ( when the worst land-grabs begun and 2007. (this is an estimate by the University of Zimbabwe--it has to be an estimate as Mugabe will not allow statistics to be published---wonder why? Some say the figure is 80%).
When apologists for the likes of Mugabe and his gang ignore the truth they ape the attitudes of the Stalin-lovers of the 1930s who denied the Soviet famines.
No number of truth-averse books will change the fact that ZanyPF (as they are called locally) wrecked the economy, crippled the agricultural sector, left 50% of the people unemployed, reduced precious metal output by 75% and have created real hardship.
After twenty-two years of "land reform" there have been small number of successes, but mostly abject failures. There has been a small recovery since the SACD became involved and the currency dollarised ( actually randized), but the country has a long way to go before it returns to the agricultural production levels it enjoyed even at the height of a civil war.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist (or an agronomist for that matter) to work out why "White" farmers make things grow and if I thought that an explanation would fall on fertile ground, I would explain. But it would probably be casting pearls before swine.

Last edited by Ancientgeezer; December 10th, 2012 at 06:32 AM.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 09:06 AM   #44

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Originally Posted by riczepeda View Post
I need help compiling a list of conflicts caused by Westerners. ex- the Pakistan and Indian conflict over the Kasmir region. and when i mean westerners i will like to stick to American, UN, EU, European involvement. Thank u guys
This o/p seems to ask for a list of conflicts caused by the "Western" world. As of the second page though, I am just seeing a lot of this....
Click the image to open in full size.
....aimed at the "West", with multiple, specific, instances where the evil has caused misery to the innocent.

It might be nice if this thread sticks to its raison 'detre, and anyone who wished to remind everyone here, how evil the United States/ United Kingdom/ France is, open a new thread in The Chamber: History in order to discuss it.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 06:21 PM   #45

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Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
A reading of David Bullard's article (not mine!) would reveal to even the most rabid Black racist that he was having a dig at the sort of crap that anti-white losers and bed-wetters are always spouting about White people being to blame for their failures. Those who actually know about local South African politics will remember that the piece appeared during increasing coverage of the semi-literate Julius Malema's anti-white rants. Most illuminating is that after David was fired from his job he received equal support from both Black and White journalists..
The reading of the article reveals how many of the white minds in a society which was once presided over by the world's last nazis, operates. I suppose the Chinese now are your African version of Jews--- evil and efficient and strange little men planning to take over the world, beginning with Africa. And you are one of those benevolent white spirits who cares when no one else does.


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Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
Don't know where you get that accusation from. I referenced an Economist article that suggest that Saudi Arabian interests are investing in commercial farming--I did not however comment on it. As far as road production is concerned, the Ethiopian Roads Authority has been planning to build or repair 2500km of roads since 2001. There is a nice ring road around Addis and a pretty piece of tarmac to the airport--outside of that some, 38kms has been completed. However a long stretch is being built right now to Derba to service the Derba Cement Company. It has become a priority since Sheik Al-Amoudi, the Saudi who owns the cement plant, threatened to pull out unless the road he even offered to build himself after years of delay was not completed.
I was speaking about the typical paranoia and racist propaganda associated with the Wesstern media covering China in Africa. The most common accussation is landgrabs by Chinese. And Ethiopia is often offered as the prime example of these land grabs--a marxist type country where land is mostly owned by the state, and is often leased not sold. And where Indian Nationals feature most prominently as foreign investors in agriculture.

We should look in German newspapers during the Hitler era and compare lies and propaganda told about jews and those told about Chinese in Africa in Western newspapers. We could also look at British newspapers before world war 1 and compare what the paranoid press was saying about the rise of Germany to inevitable greatness before a world war wrecked the Rhineland and tortured it with reparations, with what Western newspapers today are saying about the rise of China.

Lets just hope the Chinese Communist Party is not no idiot Kaiser.

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Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
As far as road production is concerned, the Ethiopian Roads Authority has been planning to build or repair 2500km of roads since 2001. There is a nice ring road around Addis and a pretty piece of tarmac to the airport--outside of that some, 38kms has been completed. However a long stretch is being built right now to Derba to service the Derba Cement Company. It has become a priority since Sheik Al-Amoudi, the Saudi who owns the cement plant, threatened to pull out unless the road he even offered to build himself after years of delay was not completed.

Typical--more anectodes to prove your point that the government of Ethiopia does not look after the interests of small farmers but only looks after commercial interests, unlike white imperialists in Zimbabwe and South Africa would.

There is corruption in Ethiopa but it does not stand in the way of people in Ethiopia beneffiting from the new wealth being created as a result of close to double digit growth over recent years. There is a more equitable distribution of income in Ethiopia than most other countries. Because the growth is based on Agriculture which is in the hands of small farmers, benefiting from such growth, though there is a long way to go.

There is certainly a better or more equitable distribution of income than in South Africa--a country and economy which is essentially a white settler Oligarchy, with black collaborators, traitors and sell outs, serving as a predatory and negligent political elite, presiding over it.

The Ginicoefficient index measures what the distribution of income is world wide. Ethiopia ranks among the lowest group. The lower the better:

List_of_countries_by_income_equality List_of_countries_by_income_equality

South Africa is a white settler Oligarchy. So we should not wonder where it ranks. The vast majority of new wealth in Ethiopia has gone to the small farmer rural poulation, who make up the majority of the population, shabby road infrastructure notwithstanding. Ethiopia should keep up the good work. More than any other country in Africa, they seem to be headed
in the direction of a Chinese style virtuos cycle of rapid economic growth that will lead them out of abject poverty.


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Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
Regarding the second article, you may care to read the comments from Black Africans who disagree with the champagne and First-Class dining car author.
Funny how critics of Europeans fall like jackals on such crumbs without putting the whole article and the motivation of the writer in context--but then one could expect nothing else.

By the way, I actually have a post-Apartheid mentality. Acute observers will know the difference.
Putting The motivation of the writer into context? Now thats rich coming from the likes of you.

Last edited by mansamusa; December 10th, 2012 at 06:41 PM.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 07:49 PM   #46

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Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
I referenced the establishment of this exchange ( a few years ago now) in my post with a link to the Economist article. No, all land is not State owned, however most of the "privatisation" has been criticised as a sham as much of the best and irrigated land has been hived off into "private" companies in which the State is the beneficial shareholder and the management government appointees. Peasant farming has benefited little from State-channeled aid--and thereby lies the problem..
Criticised as a sham by who--the same paranoid, propaganda prone ignorant, negrophobic Western journalists. Stop speaking like some godforsaken authority and reproduce the statistics to prove this characterization of the agriculture industry of Ethiopia.

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Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
Do I need to tell you? Agricultural production down 50% between 2001 ( when the worst land-grabs begun and 2007. (this is an estimate by the University of Zimbabwe--it has to be an estimate as Mugabe will not allow statistics to be published---wonder why? Some say the figure is 80%).
When apologists for the likes of Mugabe and his gang ignore the truth they ape the attitudes of the Stalin-lovers of the 1930s who denied the Soviet famines.
No number of truth-averse books will change the fact that ZanyPF (as they are called locally) wrecked the economy, crippled the agricultural sector, left 50% of the people unemployed, reduced precious metal output by 75% and have created real hardship.
After twenty-two years of "land reform" there have been small number of successes, but mostly abject failures. There has been a small recovery since the SACD became involved and the currency dollarised ( actually randized), but the country has a long way to go before it returns to the agricultural production levels it enjoyed even at the height of a civil war..
No self respecting economist or agronomist--white, black, African or Western--with respect for his profession will ever attribute the collapse of the Zimbabwe economy to land reform. Only Western Journalists and emigre white South Africans and Zimbabweans do that.

Truth-averse books--really now? Thats what you call meticulously collected organised and analyzed data. I thought the name for that kind of thing was scientific evidence.

And if the all powerful Mugabe wont allow statistics to be published how do you explain the growing body of evidence examining the results of the Land reform programs in that country. What cartoonish excuses


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Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
It doesn't take a rocket scientist (or an agronomist for that matter) to work out why "White" farmers make things grow and if I thought that an explanation would fall on fertile ground, I would explain. But it would probably be casting pearls before swine.
I know well enough how white farmers make things grow. White Magic. People speak about Black magic in Africa being a potent thing; only because they dont know anthything of the white magic of white african farmers.

I have heard stories of White farmers fertilizing several million hectares of desert land using nothing more but a grain of salt and a drop of water---producing enough food to feed the whole continent.

But any how, black small farmers not born with the advantage of white magic resort to other means, especially when they have land stolen from them by Imperialist and criminal thieves or gilded parasites posing preposterously as benevolent white spirits, restored back to them:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/wo...pagewanted=all
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Old December 10th, 2012, 08:49 PM   #47

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Here is an interesting Q and A with a somewhat honest and knowledgeable Western journalist. featured in the link in my previous post:

Quote:
Question: Matthew Kustenbauder, a Ph.D. student in History at Harvard University, wrote a multipart critique of the article, raising several interesting questions. Among them was whether the article, by focusing on tobacco, obscured plummeting yields in other crops.

Answer: One of the biggest misconceptions about the nature of agriculture in Zimbabwe pre-2000 is that white commercial farmers were feeding Zimbabwe. This was not strictly true, according to experts on farming in Zimbabwe like Sam Moyo of the African Institute of Agrarian Studies, who has been very closely tracking these patterns.

The majority of the maize, which is the staple food crop in Zimbabwe, was grown on so-called communal land, which is owned collectively by villagers. Commercial farms played a crucial role in both supporting local production through employment and creating an economic environment in which inputs for farmers were less expensive. They also grew a limited amount of maize.
But white farmers were not literally feeding Zimbabwe. Most focused on high-value cash crops like tobacco, fruit, nuts, avocados and coffee. Some grew wheat, and wheat production has indeed pretty much collapsed because it is an irrigation-intensive crop that requires infrastructure that small-scale farmers cannot afford. As a result, wheat production has gone from 230,000 metric tons in 1999-2000 to a tenth of that last year.

But let’s look at maize, which is what most Zimbabweans eat. Production was 1.6 million metric tons in 1999/2000, the season before land seizures began. As the crisis grew, production plummeted. It bottomed out in 2007-08 at 575,000 metric tons, a cataclysmically small harvest. Starvation loomed, and Zimbabwe needed huge amounts of food aid. It was also the peak of the country’s economic and political crisis. But by 2010-11, the maize crop had rebounded to nearly 1.5 million metric tons. This year’s harvest is likely to be smaller because of drought. But there is no question that the capacity of Zimbabwean farmers to produce maize at pre-2000 levels is getting much stronger.

There have been other bright spots. Cotton, which was mostly grown on communal land, is already above the 1999-2000 production levels. Barley and small grains production has increased. Zimbabwe is growing twice as many beans as it did a decade ago. Prices are high in Zimbabwe, because the general collapse of the economy brought on by the land seizures has made it a very risky place for anyone to invest. So local production has become prohibitive. Imports have a built-in premium, since importing to an unstable country like Zimbabwe is risky.

Make no mistake: There is still a great deal of economic pain in Zimbabwe. Unemployment remains a huge problem. Many Zimbabweans have fled to South Africa to look for jobs. Switching to the United States dollar halted inflation, but economic growth remains sluggish. An uncertain political future contributes to the malaise. Indeed, one reason why tobacco has rebounded is that the government simply isn’t involved. Farmers sell their tobacco at auction to buyers for hard currency. And tobacco companies have been giving small-scale farmers loans, which are repaid with auction sale proceeds. This kind of contract farming has helped revive the industry much more quickly. Having access to seeds, fertilizer and equipment makes all the difference.
Q. and A. With Lydia Polgreen and Reader Reactions on Land Reform in Zimbabwe - NYTimes.com
here is another article much more forthright. It relies on a report by the African Institute for Agrarian Studies--AIAS:
Quote:


Challenging Western Distortions about Zimbabwe’s Land Reform | Global Research

Historically, the success of any land reform effort depends on the support new farmers are given. Adequate agricultural inputs are essential. Unfortunately, Zimbabwe has had to deal with some daunting challenges in that regard.

The AIAS found that less than half of the farmers it surveyed relied on inorganic fertilizer, production of which has sharply declined in the nation. “Fertilizer and agro-chemicals use have been most affected because they require some imported content yet foreign currency resources have been scarce.” (11)

And the supply of foreign currency is low due to Western sanctions. As the IDS study points out, other factors include “frequent plant and machinery breakdowns and power cuts, and the reduced capacity of the National Railways of Zimbabwe, leading to increased costs of moving raw materials from mines and ports by road.”(12)

Sanctions have reduced Zimbabwe’s access to spare parts to keep machinery running, and the poor supply of foreign currency limits the amount of electrical power that can be imported from neighboring countries. “Furthermore,” the AIAS notes, “the majority of the new farmers are resource-constrained and thus cannot afford to meet their input requirements from the market even when the inputs are available.” (13)


Prior to the fast track land reform process, large commercial farms received strong credit line support from both state and private financial institutions, while nearly all smallholders lacked such support. After fast track land reform, most of the private financial companies withdrew altogether from offering credit to farmers. Only two percent of resettled farmers “benefitted from private sector crop input schemes and none were beneficiaries for livestock programs.” (14)

Financial support for the burgeoning number of farmers fell to the state, which was ill equipped to meet the need, with its financial resources stretched to the breaking point by economic sanctions. As a result, only a small percentage of resettled farmers were able to benefit from adequate credit support, compelling most of them to rely on their own savings to manage. (15)

International NGOs for the most part refused to provide any services to resettled farmers, and focused their efforts elsewhere. Relying for their funding on Western governments hostile to the land reform process, NGOs were loath to support the beneficiaries of a process they preferred to see fail. (16) Less than three percent of resettled farmers in the AIAS study sample received extension support from NGOs. “Input assistance from NGOs was even lower with 1.7 percent of the beneficiaries having received such support.” (17)

AIAS interviews with NGO officials revealed that the organizations were opposed to operating in resettled areas because they regarded land reform as illegitimate. (18) These humanitarian organizations, it seems, were much happier with the old system, in which the many suffered hunger and privation while the wealthy few thrived.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 09:30 PM   #48

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It is difficult for you to see other points of view when you have only one position.
Click the image to open in full size.
As the mod has already stated, this has deviated from the OP.
So let's move to a new thread and let this one revert to its original purpose. You can vent your racist bile here.

http://www.historum.com/lounge/50392...ml#post1283556
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Old December 11th, 2012, 02:02 AM   #49

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Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
It is difficult for you to see other points of view when you have only one position.
Click the image to open in full size.
As the mod has already stated, this has deviated from the OP.
So let's move to a new thread and let this one revert to its original purpose. You can vent your racist bile here.

http://www.historum.com/lounge/50392...ml#post1283556
Whatever you say Mr. Expert Negrologist.
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