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Old January 16th, 2013, 09:16 PM   #11
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the development of modern type firearms and more centralized states greatly helped reduce their threat.Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.
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Old January 16th, 2013, 10:30 PM   #12

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Suppose it depends on what continent we're looking at. Nomadic horse cultures persisted in Russia and on the American plains a lot longer than they did, say, in the Middle East or eastern/central Europe.
I was thinking something similar. In Mongolia there are still entire cities which are "nomad" [in the sense that these mobile cities make reference to several fix doors and for visitors the effect can be really odd: you see the door of a city in the null, without the city ... because the "city" has moved somewhere else].

So, it can be also a matter of integration. Something similar has happened in the last century [and it's still happening] in Northern Africa where governments are incentivizing [promoting] the settlement of the Berber nomad tribes of the desert in the urban areas [we Italians know well this phenomenon in Tunisia since we are well present in that country with our business].

At the end the answer is very variable according to the geographical area we consider.

Generally we can say that once a stable and lasting urban organizations grows, the nomadic tribes find it more and more difficult to threat the agriculture societies. On the other hand [this happened in early Egypt] it happened that nomadic tribes found it well more easy and comfortable to settle in fertile and rich areas. Just river Nile is a great example of this. During the very long history of Egypt nomadic tribes have overall integrated themselves with that rich agricultural civilization, invasions and conflicts happened, we can mention the Hyksos as example, but statistically integration was the most common consequence of the arrival of nomadic populations in "KmT", the black land.
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Old January 17th, 2013, 05:07 AM   #13

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Well ,arguably, the Tuaregs are nomadic and they've definitely been a threat to some people in Mali for a while. Noticeably this year.
However, technically, I would say it depends on what continent. European nomads stopped being a threat long before the Mongols did, and Arab nomads and Berbers were certainly a threat in the twentieth century (during the unification of Saudi Arabia especially) to agricultural communities.
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Old January 17th, 2013, 06:12 AM   #14
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It was farming which threatened nomadic tribes. The nomadic tribes came first.
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Old January 17th, 2013, 06:24 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by AbandonAllHope View Post
Well ,arguably, the Tuaregs are nomadic and they've definitely been a threat to some people in Mali for a while. Noticeably this year.
However, technically, I would say it depends on what continent. European nomads stopped being a threat long before the Mongols did, and Arab nomads and Berbers were certainly a threat in the twentieth century (during the unification of Saudi Arabia especially) to agricultural communities.
The Ikhwan and the Al Saud family were not nomads, King Abdelaziz in fact made his bedouin settle in agricultural communities.

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Ibn Sa'ud organized the Ikhwan in 1912 from Wahhabi Bedouin tribes. He intended to make them into a reliable and stable source of an elite army corps. In order to break their traditional tribal allegiances and feuds, the Ikhwan were settled in colonies known as hijrahs. These settlements, established around desert oases to promote agricultural reclamation of the land, further forced the Bedouin to abandon their nomadic way of life. The hijrahs, whose populations ranged from 10 to 10,000, offered tribesmen living quarters, mosques, schools, agricultural equipment and instruction, and arms and ammunition. Religious teachers instructed them in Wahhabi fundamentalist theology.
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Old January 17th, 2013, 10:23 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Emperor of All the Romans View Post
Though its not the only cause, the development of modern type firearms and more centralized states greatly helped reduce their threat.
I'm going to say technology is the biggest factor here. Because Song Dynasty was just as centralized as many of today's modern government, their wealth was probably 100x the GDP of their nomads, but yet they were totally ineffective military wise.
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Old January 18th, 2013, 01:12 AM   #17

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I'm going to say technology is the biggest factor here. Because Song Dynasty was just as centralized as many of today's modern government, their wealth was probably 100x the GDP of their nomads, but yet they were totally ineffective military wise.
One of the reasons the Song Dynasty was ineffective military wise was the wish's of the Emperors not to place to much authority in the hands of others, so as to avoid a repeat of of the fate of the Tang Dynasty. That's why instead of a strong centralized military establishment, there were several independent armies whose commanders reported directly to the Emperor.

However thats not to say technology didn't play a major part either, as it's nearly impossible for nomadic peoples to develop the infrastructure needed for heavy industry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salah View Post
Suppose it depends on what continent we're looking at. Nomadic horse cultures persisted in Russia and on the American plains a lot longer than they did, say, in the Middle East or eastern/central Europe.
Great point, it varies greatly by region.
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