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Old July 12th, 2013, 11:43 PM   #1
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Loyalty and Honor


Loyalty and Honor...two things that escape our modern world. What are the best examples of "loyalty and honor" in history?
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Old July 12th, 2013, 11:48 PM   #2

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Very true, loyalty & honor have different definitions to people.
L&H could mean L&H to a marriage.
L&H could mean L&H to a job.
L&H could mean L&H to a cause.
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Old July 13th, 2013, 12:01 AM   #3

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I'm not sure loyalty and honour were ever widespread throught history, outside of military institutions. It is possible the various examples that wil doubtless crop up on this thread were meant to highlight an ideal that the "average person" was to aspire to, much like the concept of "chivalry".
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Old July 13th, 2013, 12:02 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjadams View Post
Very true, loyalty & honor have different definitions to people.
L&H could mean L&H to a marriage.
L&H could mean L&H to a job.
L&H could mean L&H to a cause.
You are correct. Place it in a historical context. Its an open question.
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Old July 13th, 2013, 12:15 AM   #5

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In occasion of the Siege of Malta, not only the Knights [who were anyway chained to a code of honor and to an already well ancient tradition], but also the soldiers with them showed all the honor and the loyalty possible.

No one left the isle, they fought until the end, knowing in some cases [like the first defense of the external fortress] that it was simply a matter of time and death was waiting for them.

And the last act: the aged Grand Master riding his horse, leading the charge of the survived Knights against the Ottoman troops in front of the walls of the Religion [the Knights called in this way the fortified city on the isle].

Against all ... they were victorious.
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Old July 13th, 2013, 12:22 AM   #6
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US Independence is completely disloyal and extremely honorable.
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Old July 13th, 2013, 12:25 AM   #7

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US Independence is completely disloyal and extremely honorable.
Good point, loyalty is not a positive value in absolute. It depends on which is the object of this loyalty.

Nazis were absolutely loyal to their leader and to their ideology. Sure that wasn't that positive ...

In general, all revolutions involves the break of a loyalty [as it's quite obvious].
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Old July 13th, 2013, 12:28 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belisarius View Post
I'm not sure loyalty and honour were ever widespread throught history, outside of military institutions. It is possible the various examples that wil doubtless crop up on this thread were meant to highlight an ideal that the "average person" was to aspire to, much like the concept of "chivalry".
Very true. I feel this is the backbone of all mankind. Loyalty and honor.
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Old July 13th, 2013, 12:28 AM   #9

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belisarius View Post
I'm not sure loyalty and honour were ever widespread throught history, outside of military institutions. It is possible the various examples that wil doubtless crop up on this thread were meant to highlight an ideal that the "average person" was to aspire to, much like the concept of "chivalry".
Torii Mototada. I'll leave you to look him up.
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Old July 13th, 2013, 03:56 AM   #10

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One of the modern societies most intent on these was the Empire of Japan, which took both so seriously that it treated prisoners who committed the dishonorable act of surrendering abominably and was so loyal to the war effort that as late as 1945 it could not say the word 'surrender.' Oddly with a major example of this, and of the honor concept leading directly into suicide bombings, and even the honor killings which illustrate another factor of why honor is good in the breach more than the observance, this does not stop Westerners bemoaning the absence of something whose real-world manifestations they condemn.
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