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Old September 5th, 2013, 02:04 AM   #11

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I am sad to hear that they will not do a second series at least she has got a lot of people interested in a time in history that is over looked. I wonder if the complaints were from know it all historians with agenda's.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 03:33 AM   #12

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standing on the shoulders of giants?


Dr Gregory is something of a popularist author, sells a lot more books and is generally more well known than many other academics in her field. However to achieve the output and to be more of a popular history writer, one has to sacrifice a measure of academic historical integrity and ability. The result is that Dr Gregory and others will often rely upon the works of other academics and the research they have produced to pump out their own works.

Thus academics spend years researching to pump out a series of journal articles and research monographs which are read by comparatively few, and Dr Gregory and others take their findings and incorporate it into their own work which is then very well read and a best seller.

People tend to get a bit annoyed, doing the ground breaking work but getting little of the publicity etc.

Her books by no means are bad, they just arent always as deep or substansive, or original as others.
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Old September 9th, 2013, 03:37 PM   #13

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When I had first heard that Philippa Gregory books were going to used for her drama I was a bit skeptical to see if they could pull it off. I have felt that her books are readable for all to read unlike some that are heavy going and just give me a headache such as Richard III by Charles Ross. That book is all over place, it's very confusing and has less of an appeal for anyone who generally wants to know about the War of the Roses and the people that play a role in what happened back then. There are plenty of books out there on the subject that will put anybody of wanting to learn much about the history back then.

I have been going to some Richarian sites this weekend and talking to people who work there and some of its visitors. I had been told that the amount of visitors has doubled since the TV drama and from the visitors that I had met they wanted to discover more about Richard. They want to find out the truth for themselves, they don't want to listen about someone talking about Shakesphere play or listen to some expert more likely going to bore them. Although Philippa Gregory has made this era of history more easy way of getting across to millions of people it properly done a good to this era in history because she has managed to generate an interest in many more people than some experts. She may have made some inaccurate mistakes in some respects, but I we owe her a lot as she has generated a lot of interest in this era and getting people interested in this era in history can not be a bad thing.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 04:35 AM   #14

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I remember watching some of the interviews and documentaries Philippa Gregory gave after the White Queen. While my partner and I sat there and watched, I as a medievalist and she as a early-modern gender historian, we could not but think, the Gregory made some rather interesting suggestions, and while in need of a good bit of revisionism here and there, some of her stuff just didnt add up, or would need a very detailed study and examination of the evidence used. Which basically came out in discussion as, Gregory is putting too much emphasis on this that or the other, and perhaps BS'ing a bit for her own theories.

Interesting ideas, right for consideration, but nothing we were going to take too seriously to the extents she was suggesting.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 04:28 PM   #15

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
I remember watching some of the interviews and documentaries Philippa Gregory gave after the White Queen. While my partner and I sat there and watched, I as a medievalist and she as a early-modern gender historian, we could not but think, the Gregory made some rather interesting suggestions, and while in need of a good bit of revisionism here and there, some of her stuff just didnt add up, or would need a very detailed study and examination of the evidence used. Which basically came out in discussion as, Gregory is putting too much emphasis on this that or the other, and perhaps BS'ing a bit for her own theories.

Interesting ideas, right for consideration, but nothing we were going to take too seriously to the extents she was suggesting.
I did not watch the TV drama, my man has the remote control by his reclining chair. I had got her books out in the library and read them on holiday, I can see where she got some of her sources from. The Mancini one about the strawberries and Hastings beheading was quite funny. I think the scribblers back in history could write rubbish back then as much as historians write now by quoting them.
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Old December 27th, 2013, 09:12 PM   #16

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Again - if we accept her works as fiction rather than fact then they can become entertaining. It is when people start believing that fiction is fact that I take umbrage, especially when novelists are touted as academics (and whilst some are, many are not).

Historical fiction as a gateway to further research - those who are genuinely interested with detour along this path; others will stay on the yellow brick road and find their way to the realm of fantasy.
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Old February 10th, 2015, 01:56 PM   #17
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I will take the heretical view in this thread and say she has had a very highly positive impact on history.

How many people are actually into history? Be honest here how many?

Everyone she gets into history is positive even if they end up with an inaccurate view of the wars of the roses and think Richard III was sleeping with Elizabeth of York.
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Old February 16th, 2015, 01:15 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusStultus View Post
I will take the heretical view in this thread and say she has had a very highly positive impact on history.

How many people are actually into history? Be honest here how many?

Everyone she gets into history is positive even if they end up with an inaccurate view of the wars of the roses and think Richard III was sleeping with Elizabeth of York.
Well, I would say that ending up with a completely wrong idea of historical events because one thinks that what a novelist writes is the truth, is of no benefit to the study of history.

This was evidenced by the Anne Boleyn page on Wiki. After Gregory's Other Boleyn Girl was filmed, the moderator of the page was constantly having to take out references to the events of the film entered on the page as fact when there is no historical basis for them.

By all means encourage an interest in history - there are many people who come to the subject via historical novels - but an appendix settting out what is fact and what the writer has used as artistic licence to create the story would prevent countless thousands of people absorbing fiction and believing it is fact.
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Old February 16th, 2015, 06:11 AM   #19
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Well, I would say that ending up with a completely wrong idea of historical events because one thinks that what a novelist writes is the truth, is of no benefit to the study of history.

This was evidenced by the Anne Boleyn page on Wiki. After Gregory's Other Boleyn Girl was filmed, the moderator of the page was constantly having to take out references to the events of the film entered on the page as fact when there is no historical basis for them.

By all means encourage an interest in history - there are many people who come to the subject via historical novels - but an appendix settting out what is fact and what the writer has used as artistic licence to create the story would prevent countless thousands of people absorbing fiction and believing it is fact.
However you should measure that up against history being forgotten altogether. Anne Boleyn of course isn't a topic that needs much help so that really is a lot less forgivable-on the other hand how many people are into the reign of Henry VII?

I also would like it if Gregory pointed out via appendix what the creative license is, people could tell magic is creative license but it would have been nice if she said incest and other viable inaccuracy was. I am also sure that she has many more

That said I still think she has been much more positive on account of the way the subject matter is often very obscure in the first place and could be corrected later. Anne Boleyn is an exception; Henry VII is I think very forgotten.

Any Britons want to chime in on how common knowledge of the Wars of the Roses, Richard III or Edward IV is? I strongly suspect that they have seats with Henry VII as forgotten monarchs.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 01:29 AM   #20
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I think since the discovery of Richard III's remains a couple of years ago, there has been an increase in interest about TWOTR and of course, Gregory has latched on to that with her two favourite themes of magic and incest.
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