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Old February 22nd, 2011, 03:32 PM   #21

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Definately a real despair there. I wonder if it was just Wells' way of saying, "All for naught?"
The same feeling when you hear scientist talk about the Big Fade. The stars expanding out of visible contact with each other, gradually losing energy, going dark, eventually even atoms losing cohesion and fading off into cold energyless particles. Even Immortality is eventually mortal.

I think it's a good message. Nothing is forever. The British Empire may seem grand and important now, but it shall pass. Our lives, our Way of Life, our religions... they are just momentary entertainments in the Big Picture. In the year 800,000 no one will give a damn.
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Old February 25th, 2011, 10:29 PM   #22

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It's got that early science fiction theme of being fascinated and concerned/curious about the progression of technology and how it would integrate with humanity or come to dominate us. It's kind of interesting how in a way its quite reactionary, that to progress further is possibly to be less human...

The division of the human species is interesting, it's something I've wondered about if the Australopithecines if they were still around contemporary to us, a slightly less intelligent relative, how much they'd be exploited.
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Old February 28th, 2011, 08:21 PM   #23

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The division of the human species is interesting, it's something I've wondered about if the Australopithecines if they were still around contemporary to us, a slightly less intelligent relative, how much they'd be exploited.
That is a great question. In Mongolian folklore, there is a race of wildmen called Alma. There is a story that a female Alma was captured and taken to Abkhazia in the Caucasus where she was basically kept as a slave. Named Zana, she gave birth to several children for her captor, eventually dying at the turn of the 20th century. One of her son's skull still floats around the area of his birth and was examined by scientists. It was determined that it was completely modern but may have been from an isolated people, thus making them seem alien to "our" culture.

Something tells me, that if austrolopthecines still lived amongst us, the slavery of Zana would not be far from reality. That is, if they were capably of the training, otherwise we would be throwing them bananas in the zoo.
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Old March 1st, 2011, 12:40 AM   #24

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Oh absolutely Oka, humans capable of the menial tasks we don't want to do, slightly less intelligent...perfect material for abuse. As well, I think that because of their familiarity to our species yet the divide in intelligence would breed either contempt or patronizing sympathy.

I mean, think about how much hatred exists between other communities of the same species, what of a species in relation but not exactly the same?
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Old March 1st, 2011, 12:43 AM   #25
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The same feeling when you hear scientist talk about the Big Fade. The stars expanding out of visible contact with each other, gradually losing energy, going dark, eventually even atoms losing cohesion and fading off into cold energyless particles. Even Immortality is eventually mortal.
Galaxies are expanding away from each other at an INCREASING velocity. How does that figure in to your musings?
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Old March 1st, 2011, 03:12 AM   #26

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That is a great question. In Mongolian folklore, there is a race of wildmen called Alma. There is a story that a female Alma was captured and taken to Abkhazia in the Caucasus where she was basically kept as a slave. Named Zana, she gave birth to several children for her captor, eventually dying at the turn of the 20th century. One of her son's skull still floats around the area of his birth and was examined by scientists. It was determined that it was completely modern but may have been from an isolated people, thus making them seem alien to "our" culture.

Something tells me, that if austrolopthecines still lived amongst us, the slavery of Zana would not be far from reality. That is, if they were capably of the training, otherwise we would be throwing them bananas in the zoo.

We enslaved millions of people from Africa for centuries, using the they are an inferior species justification. I guess we would all have own very own Samwise Gamgee.

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Old March 1st, 2011, 07:33 AM   #27

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We enslaved millions of people from Africa for centuries, using the they are an inferior species justification. I guess we would all have own very own Samwise Gamgee.
Having abandoned that mindset in the West, how quickly could, or would, it be readapted if a subspecies of human were discovered? It is wrong to enslave humans, but is it wrong to enslave a species that is just slightly above those whom we do scientific testing on?

Click the image to open in full size.

The comparisons could actually be made between this scenario and that of the Victorian dichotomy put on view by Wells. Much like a maligned subspecies, the working class found a way to rise up and take a form of vengeance on their once masters. Justified? Does the Traveler actually have a right to be disgusted/ dismayed by what he witnesses? As a scientist, should he just accept the natural course of things?
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Old March 1st, 2011, 07:49 AM   #28

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I always thought that the eloi and the morlocks represented human duality. The intellect and the brutality. I can see the political angle, though.
I think that you are indeed correct there. I have to explain that I read this many years ago and haven't reread it recently so am relying on distant memory.

The Eloi and the Morlocks are indeed both evolved from Humans and can be viewed as dissected aspects of human nature. This remind me of the Dr. Jekel and Mr. Hyde stroy that we read. There to confliction aspects of one human were segregated into to different people. Here two aspects of humanity are seggregated into two descendent species.

Of course there is the political dimension and social darwinism as well, but HG could have intended these aspects to be conveyed too.
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Old March 1st, 2011, 08:27 AM   #29

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Planet of the Apes as Eloi and Morlock. Never thought of that before, good comparison.
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Old March 1st, 2011, 09:00 AM   #30

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Okamido asks if the Traveler has a right to be disgusted, and if he should accept the natural course of things. Yes, I would say he has the right to be repulsed by what he sees, given that he comes from a time when what he now witnesses was inconcievable. Yet in the context of the time he now observes, that right exists only unto himself as the inhabitants of that world would care not a whit. As to the scientific, I would think that once recovered from the shock, his mind would begin searching for the why, and the how, when. If Wells' perceptions of the social dynamics of his time led to his vision of such an extreme, would not the Traveler as a man of science from Wells' time, likewise, conclude such eventually? More importantly, would not the reader? And as the social dynamics that inspired Wells still exist today, the conclusion can still be drawn by the reader today. If that is the case, the intent of Wells' horrific concoction of the future is successful whether the real course of our progression is swayed or not.
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