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Old February 27th, 2011, 01:06 PM   #21

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I would like to think that it was a notch above what we currently experience where individuals without any stake(outside of entitlements), are allowed to vote.
I agree for the most part. Plus in ST, federal service was portrayed as very difficult, tho I'm not sure if it was more the recruit sergeant trying to haze out the weak or if it really was difficult. It definitely was for anyone doing the actual fighting in it.

@Opana -Exactly. The two things that make Mobile Infantry what it is are the caps and the suits. Gotta have a fast corvette transport like the good ole Rodger Young, too, but without the caps and suits the film just fell apart for me.

The saving graces were the lovely ladies, but it wasn't enough overall.
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Old February 27th, 2011, 01:08 PM   #22

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For all my readings, I've only read two novels in my entire life. My brain just isn't wired to read fiction.
This one's all in the first person narrative, if that helps.
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Old February 27th, 2011, 01:17 PM   #23

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I agree for the most part. Plus in ST, federal service was portrayed as very difficult, tho I'm not sure if it was more the recruit sergeant trying to haze out the weak or if it really was difficult. It definitely was for anyone doing the actual fighting in it.
Remember the passages about allowing anyone to serve? I am sure they were not just weeding out the weak, but making an attempt to not have to "find jobs" for everyone who did want to serve. You can only have so many runway sweepers.
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Old February 27th, 2011, 01:23 PM   #24

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Remember the passages about allowing anyone to serve? I am sure they were not just weeding out the weak, but making an attempt to not have to "find jobs" for everyone who did want to serve. You can only have so many runway sweepers.
Lol, I mean't weak of will, or purpose. I should probably try to be more clear. But yeah, I also think he was stressing the fact that once they joined, they were basically at the mercy of the Federation, so they shouldn't expect a cush job, either. I remember how Johnnie had his eyes set on being a pilot so he could be around Carmen.
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Old February 27th, 2011, 01:29 PM   #25

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It's a long time since I've read the book; I was also very young. At the time I was more taken by the battles with the Bugs from Klendathu. Now, from what I can recall, philosophically it did seem to have a somewhat lecturing soap box approach. As a novel there didn't seem to be much balance to it; it lacked a valid alternative viewpoint to the one that was being propounded by Colonel Dubois and the other military instructors.
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Old February 27th, 2011, 01:41 PM   #26

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it lacked a valid alternative viewpoint to the one that was being propounded by Colonel Dubois and the other military instructors.
I think that was the point, and one made by countless other authors. In this particular story, Heinlein was conveying his own political and ethical stance, since it was his work, he doesn't necessarily have to present an alternative.
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Old February 27th, 2011, 01:50 PM   #27
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There would definately have to be an ingrained sense of the Rule of Law. I believe this is something we have now(at least in the military). With the strongest military force in the world and the most ridiculous partisan infighting and quagmire of a Republic, the one thing we can seemingly always take comfort in, is the fact that some General isn't marching troops into the Senate and House.

The thing about the non-citizens in the book is that they aren't down trodden or enslaved. They have the same opportunities in life as the citizens. They simply can't take part in the running of the Government without first making a scarifice to the greater good. In my view, this sacrifice wouldn't have to be solely military, as how many wing wipers does the military actually need? Service could be to your individual communities, to the greater infrastructure, to helping those less fortunate. As a matter of fact, many HighSchools require some form of this for graduation now I believe.
There in lie the rub...as in the story Heinlein imo portrays the lessers as just that lessers and ascribes an elitist mentality to the uniform....the danger is to great....even tho it was portrayed that society at large accepted their supposed benevolence
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Old February 27th, 2011, 01:55 PM   #28

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I guess it's true that Heinlein was giving his view of an ideal state. But that still leaves the reader feeling he's being told what to think, surely? It seems to lower the potential intellectual power of the novel because ultimately Heinlein is reluctant to subject his own thesis to any real challenge.
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Old February 27th, 2011, 01:59 PM   #29

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Remember the passages about allowing anyone to serve? I am sure they were not just weeding out the weak, but making an attempt to not have to "find jobs" for everyone who did want to serve. You can only have so many runway sweepers.
But he said that if someone showed up blind in a wheelchair they'd find them a job.
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Old February 27th, 2011, 02:00 PM   #30

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I guess it's true that Heinlein was giving his view of an ideal state. But that still leaves the reader feeling he's being told what to think, surely? It seems to lower the potential intellectual power of the novel because ultimately Heinlein is reluctant to subject his own thesis to any real challenge.
It's a sociological what-if. Just ruminations on one way it might work.
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