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Old February 27th, 2011, 03:00 PM   #31

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I guess that's true; Heinlein was giving his view of an ideal state. But that still leave the reader feeling he's being told what to think, surely? It seems to lower the potential intellectual power of the novel because ultimately Heinlein is reluctant to subject his own thesis to any real challenge.
Well he does compare his systems to previous systems via the characters of Col Dubois and Johnnie's History and Moral Philosophy instructor (his name escapes me) at OCS. I'm not saying he gives the systems he talks about a fair shake, but he does use them to facilitate his literary demonstration of his own system's superiority.
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Old February 27th, 2011, 03:05 PM   #32
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But he said that if someone showed up blind in a wheelchair they'd find them a job.



Yep....and Vets were fitted with prosthetics and sent out to recruit.....for the Space Marines.

BL ....I loved the guy and the story... still do...but the representation makes this old 23 year serivce 'CAV-smoking-dipping-hard loving-drinking-we will kill em all let GOD sort them out'.... vet of many fields and eras...... wary.
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Old February 27th, 2011, 03:11 PM   #33

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But he said that if someone showed up blind in a wheelchair they'd find them a job.



Yep....and Vets were fitted with prosthetics and sent out to recruit.....for the Space Marines.

BL ....I loved the guy and the story... still do...but the representation makes this old 23 year serivce 'CAV-smoking-dipping-hard loving-drinking-we will kill em all let GOD sort them out'.... vet of many fields and eras...... wary.
They didn't recruit whilst wearing their gear tho, they presented a chopped uo vet at the sign-up desk. It wasn't until after Johnnie signs up and gets posted to the MI that he meets his recruiting seargent again, strutting on prosthetic legs and sporting a normal functioning prosthetic arm.
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Old February 27th, 2011, 03:14 PM   #34
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Makes no difference Charlie...19 times I was awarded decorations and the letters of commendation were double that....bl? what's being portrayed here is glorification and glamour at the expense of lessers.....a road i won't walk.
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Old February 27th, 2011, 03:17 PM   #35

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Makes no difference Charlie...19 times I was awarded decorations and the letters of commendation were double that....bl? what's being portrayed here is glorification and glamour at the expense of lessers.....a road i won't walk.
Fair enough, my friend. I never looked at it that way, but then again I've never been a warrior. A mandolin fits my hands much easier than an assault rifle, I suspect.
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Old February 27th, 2011, 03:17 PM   #36

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Maybe, Charlie. He does say, if I remember rightly, that the Western democracies of the twentieth century were noble but doomed experiments. I think I would rate Starship Troopers higher if Heinlein were prepared to see any flaws in the utopian system he proposes - and inevitably all societies have had flaws, it's part of the human condition - but he doesn't seem to acknowledge any. Unless, of course, he's being remarkably subtle in his critique and we're intended to think that Johnny Rico and his comrades, by their very acceptance of their society's values, are allowing themselves to be somewhat blinkered. And I doubt that that was Heinlein's intention.
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Old February 27th, 2011, 03:21 PM   #37
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[QUOTE=Charlie Bravo;489317]Fair enough, my friend. I never looked at it that way, but then again I've never been a warrior.A mandolin fits my hands much easier than an assault rifle, I suspect.[/QUOTE]




nah brother you would do well. I feel that deep in the bones.
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Old February 27th, 2011, 03:23 PM   #38

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Maybe, Charlie. He does say, if I remember rightly, that the Western democracies of the twentieth century were noble but doomed experiments. I think I would rate Starship Troopers higher if Heinlein were prepared to see any flaws in the utopian system he proposes - and inevitably all societies have had flaws, it's part of the human condition - but he doesn't seem to acknowledge any. Unless, of course, he's being remarkably subtle in his critique and we're intended to think that Johnny Rico and his comrades, by their very acceptance of their society's values, are allowing themselves to be somewhat blinkered. And I doubt that that was Heinlein's intention.
I couldn't say for sure what his intentions were, mate, but I tend to agree with you, I don't think that was his intention, either. And I should clarify, I also believe he was advocating a certain position, and as such doesn't allow its weaknesses to be seen. Quite the contrary, in fact.
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Old February 27th, 2011, 03:30 PM   #39

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Well, he had the courage of his convictions which is always an admirable quality. I think he once said, rather dryly, that the only time anyone ever wrote to him about Starship Troopers was to give him a hard time over it.
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Old February 27th, 2011, 03:34 PM   #40

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[quote=Centrix Vigilis;489324]
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Fair enough, my friend. I never looked at it that way, but then again I've never been a warrior.A mandolin fits my hands much easier than an assault rifle, I suspect.[/QUOTE]




nah brother you would do well. I feel that deep in the bones.
Cheers, brother. I can see myself being the company chaplain with a pistol and a sawed off browning 12 gauge, perhaps, but it's just imagination, really. I'm certainly no Johnnie Rico and never have been.
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