Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > History Book Reviews > Historum Book Discussion
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Historum Book Discussion History Book Discussion Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old May 15th, 2011, 08:00 AM   #21

Toltec's Avatar
Fiddling as Rome Burns
 
Joined: Apr 2008
From: Hyperborea
Posts: 7,923

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuon View Post
I was being mostly facetious, whilst alluding to the notion that 9/11 truth resembles a kind of postmodern parody, I suppose. In that I have the fanciful idea that in an alternative world (for the sake of argument) if a subversive postmodern group wanted to set out a narrative criticising the notion that there is objective truth, would start a 9/11 truth movement, which by its risable nature lampoons the search for objective truth, and makes it farcical. Hence the "proxy postmodern movement."
Perhaps pataphysics, where you come up with scientific explanation so absurd that it lampoons science. Theoretical astrophysics has been called a pataphysics. Saying there are infinte universes or cats that can be both alive and dead at the same time, could be considered to be using the scientific method to lampoon science by coming up with ridiculous nonsense. The more scientific than scientific........
Toltec is offline  
Remove Ads
Old May 15th, 2011, 08:15 AM   #22

Kuon's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2009
From: Total Slack
Posts: 1,272

"Pataphysics," eh? Excellent! I hadn't heard of this before.

Quote:
"The science of imaginary solutions."
- Alfred Jarry on pataphysics.

I see some mention of Baudrillard having been a pataphysician at one point in his career.
Kuon is offline  
Old May 16th, 2011, 07:30 AM   #23

blacksmit049's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Apr 2010
From: Manila
Posts: 1,247
Blog Entries: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuon View Post
Time, the passage of, and the awareness of it's passing, is basically non-existent in both Orwell's Oceania and in the world of Huxley. There is only an ever present now, history is non-existent, the future inconceivable as nothing ever changes. Death, and especially an appreciation of such and what it means, is voided from Huxley's dystopia - man and woman, unwaxed and unwaned by the passage of time are unmourned, unmarked, and unremarked by behaviourily conditioned pups who eat chocolate sauce and play erotic games in the Hospitals for the Dying, oblivious to oblivion. Death in Orwell's Oceania is either mere statistics, no connection to reality in the eternal wars, or the exicising of unpersons from the record, into the memory hole, where their deaths are too unmarked and unremarked.
Time and history must be altered to control the population of their own individuality. This is the main theme of the Orwellian dystopia, the non-existent of memory, the great ignorance as a strength and that perpetual war is not a choice, but an obligation.

Individuality in the 1984 is abolished, no individual but everyone works as comrades. An attack probably in Stalinism in Russia.
blacksmit049 is offline  
Old May 16th, 2011, 07:33 AM   #24

blacksmit049's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Apr 2010
From: Manila
Posts: 1,247
Blog Entries: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuon View Post
Does anyone else think that John the Savage, ostensibly free and wild, is actually as behaviourily programmed as those under the auspices of the World State? John is a hopeless romantic in thrall to the tragedies of Shakespeare, he may believe that to truly feel, doom is the predermined outcome. He's locked into a narrative of star crossed lovers and ships wrecked on alien shores, of splenetic gods and oedipal rage, and his choice to live at the lighthouse in the wasteland that acts as a limbo in the spaces between civilization outside London seems an ill choice. His constant rejection by the Indians may have further predisposed him to acting out the pariah narrative, being always other than what is around him, alienated by the social body, a figure bound for a bad end. Perhaps even wishing for it.
He's actively punishing himself, deathly afraid of sex and the female anatomy, who rejects the quite honest yearning and genuine feeling that Lenina Crowne had for him - despite this being expressed in the conventional upfront sexual manner of her world.
He could not see that she was, in her striving to connect, only trying to express what she felt via the only way she knew how to express it.
Shakespeare indoctrinated and Pope hating (the lover of his mother) was understandably unable to comprehend.
His self flaggelation and insistence on being alone so close to the populous zones of the World state may attest to his desire to be punished, to be martyred, like Jesus on the cross; which he had enacted a number of times. Did he set the scene for his own crucifixion?
It seems I missed out the very good book of Huxley. If I can find a hard copy in the near bookstores, I'll grab it.
blacksmit049 is offline  
Old May 16th, 2011, 09:53 AM   #25

Kuon's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2009
From: Total Slack
Posts: 1,272

Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksmit049 View Post
It seems I missed out the very good book of Huxley. If I can find a hard copy in the near bookstores, I'll grab it.
There was an electronic version of Huxley's book made available in Avon's OP, together with Orwell's.

Here is the link where you can find both:

https://sites.google.com/site/histor...sion/resources

Kuon is offline  
Old May 30th, 2011, 10:29 AM   #26

Lors's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,704
Blog Entries: 2

deleted...

Last edited by Lors; May 30th, 2011 at 10:42 AM.
Lors is offline  
Old March 17th, 2014, 10:12 PM   #27

Queen Hecate's Avatar
Archivist
 
Joined: Mar 2014
From: United States
Posts: 128

Great thread, I love both novels, jewels of science fiction and both are very scary. I read them when I was in middle high and they really scared me because of how real they felt. Have to say though, of both I love Aldous Huxley's Brave New World best.
Queen Hecate is offline  
Old March 18th, 2014, 12:16 AM   #28

AssyrianMelodies's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: May 2013
From: New Zealand
Posts: 618

What I think I know is that all SFI utopias are dystopias in disguise.
AssyrianMelodies is offline  
Old March 18th, 2014, 04:01 AM   #29

Mangekyou's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2010
From: UK
Posts: 7,731
Blog Entries: 5

Well this has been necro'd from long ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Hecate View Post
Great thread, I love both novels, jewels of science fiction and both are very scary. I read them when I was in middle high and they really scared me because of how real they felt. Have to say though, of both I love Aldous Huxley's Brave New World best.
Yes, arguably two of the greatest books in English literature, let alone the dystopian genre. I also like Fahrenheit 451 and The Time Machine.
Mangekyou is offline  
Old March 18th, 2014, 08:26 AM   #30

post punk's Avatar
Academician
 
Joined: Mar 2014
From: USA
Posts: 71

I don't think 1984 is all that great, it's pretty simple and straightforward, kind of the standard dystopian now. Animal Farm is Orwell's best novel, but his short stories are better than either. Brave New World is fresher and more interesting than 1984 IMO.
post punk is offline  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > History Book Reviews > Historum Book Discussion

Tags
1984, brave, huxley, orwell



Search tags for this page
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Orwell, Animal Farm avon Historum Book Discussion 45 August 7th, 2015 01:22 PM
Orwell, Shooting an Elephant avon Historum Book Discussion 20 July 16th, 2015 12:04 PM
World war 1 & 2 mughal War and Military History 63 August 2nd, 2011 11:41 PM
Boleslaw the Brave NomadBard Medieval and Byzantine History 10 March 21st, 2010 03:11 AM
Supposedly brave 'Conqueror'? JohnnyH Medieval and Byzantine History 3 January 21st, 2007 02:07 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.