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Old July 7th, 2016, 09:38 PM   #11

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People were always impressed and in awe of grandeur and splendor. That was how China's surrounding nations paid tributes willingly. It was not forced per se, but people have an innate need for order which requires clear hierarchy. Steppe people generally viewed China like barbarians viewed Rome, a big slab of juicy fat meat It really depends on how that meat was dangled. Li household came from the northwestern China, and actually has significant Xianbei blood.
Haha you wish.
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Old July 8th, 2016, 10:53 PM   #12
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Haha you wish.
Isn't that what all nomads living next to sedentary people think?
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Old July 9th, 2016, 12:00 AM   #13

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Isn't that what all nomads living next to sedentary people think?
No as nomads don't need all that crap sedentary civs produce or have. It would be a burden, they need just the most essential. And the usual nomads were hardly in awe of Chinas 'grandeur'.
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Old July 9th, 2016, 12:28 AM   #14

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What about the southerners?
Southern Chinese I believe are often Yueh than Han. That was why Vietnam claimed southern China to be its after it own the Vietnam War...because of ethnicity from the lores and recently verified by science. And that led to the small scale war between Vietnam and China.
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Old July 9th, 2016, 06:07 PM   #15
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No as nomads don't need all that crap sedentary civs produce or have. It would be a burden, they need just the most essential. And the usual nomads were hardly in awe of Chinas 'grandeur'.
Well, nomads often plundered riches from sedentary people. Anyways, if the nomads were not impressed by China, why did most of them sinicize?
Why were the palaces at Karakorum built in Chinese style?
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Old July 9th, 2016, 06:27 PM   #16

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Well, nomads often plundered riches from sedentary people. Anyways, if the nomads were not impressed by China, why did most of them sinicize?
Why were the palaces at Karakorum built in Chinese style?
Not all nomads, only the ones living in Chinas periphery probably-eg from Inner Mongolia. And who says most of them became sinicized? There is no data, could be just a handful. And Karakorum was built in Chinese style because there was eventually a need for a capital for the Mongols from one can govern. It was not a city where the Mongols lived but foreigners afaik. Now whether it was built in Chinese or Islamic style hardly matters, they eventually just preffered the Chinese more maybe, but it had no real significance for them.
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Old July 10th, 2016, 03:29 PM   #17
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Not all nomads, only the ones living in Chinas periphery probably-eg from Inner Mongolia. And who says most of them became sinicized? There is no data, could be just a handful. And Karakorum was built in Chinese style because there was eventually a need for a capital for the Mongols from one can govern. It was not a city where the Mongols lived but foreigners afaik. Now whether it was built in Chinese or Islamic style hardly matters, they eventually just preffered the Chinese more maybe, but it had no real significance for them.
I meant most of the "barbarians" that invaded China proper (the core provinces) or who were subjugated by a Chinese dynasty at some point. The majority sinicized and many eventually disappeared as distinct groups. For the most part, China changed them, not the other way around (or Chinese civilization would have vanished like most other ones).
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Old July 10th, 2016, 04:16 PM   #18

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Well China has a massive population and those nomads were not much in numbers. And you can hardly be a nomad in China proper, so they adapt sedentary style and thus Chinese model. And also Chinese civilization would not vanish as you can hardly make the Chinese nomads. But eventually the nomads who were victim of Chinese had to sinicize or they just vanished or fled etc.
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