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Old August 22nd, 2017, 07:26 AM   #11

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It was not a geninue people's movement from socity and common people he summarises.
It was once said to me that in any revolution the only thing that happens is the middle class and the upper class swap roles and the workers always end up exactly where they were

So far I have not seen any history that suggests this assertion is not 100% correct
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Old August 24th, 2017, 04:17 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by David Vagamundo View Post
My spouse and I just finished reading Richard Pipes' The Russian Revolution 1899-1919 and after the Bolsheviks entered the picture, my spouse kept asking "Why didn't someone just shoot Lenin?" The Bolshevik resolution was very tenuous: many different factions had many different chances to stop the Bolsheviks, but no one did. What a pity!


Someone did, but they botched it and Lenin lived.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanny_Kaplan
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-h...mir-lenin-shot


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Old August 24th, 2017, 05:19 AM   #13

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Originally Posted by Wizard From Oz View Post
It was once said to me that in any revolution the only thing that happens is the middle class and the upper class swap roles and the workers always end up exactly where they were

So far I have not seen any history that suggests this assertion is not 100% correct
Precisely. Cromwell [sort of revolutionary], Robespierre, Lenin, Trotsky, Mao, Castro and many others, some the thinkers, if not the actual revolutionaries, like Marx, all bourgeoisie. The only real worker, that I can think of right now, that led a revolution, of sorts, was Watt Tyler.
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Old August 24th, 2017, 07:09 AM   #14

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The only real worker, that I can think of right now, that led a revolution, of sorts, was Watt Tyler.
And we all saw how that worked out for him
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Old August 24th, 2017, 07:16 AM   #15
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Precisely. Cromwell [sort of revolutionary], Robespierre, Lenin, Trotsky, Mao, Castro and many others, some the thinkers, if not the actual revolutionaries, like Marx, all bourgeoisie. The only real worker, that I can think of right now, that led a revolution, of sorts, was Watt Tyler.
Lenin wasn't a bourgeois. His family and himself had no any property to lease or other means of production.
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Old August 24th, 2017, 07:34 AM   #16

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Lenin wasn't a bourgeois. His family and himself had no any property to lease or other means of production.
His father, Ilya Nikolaevich, was inspector of public schools in Simbirsk. He eventually gained the civilian position of State Councilor, equating to the military rank of major general, and had the right to be a hereditary noble. Lenin went to university, something that the ordinary peasant guy never did, never even dreamed of. If Lenin was not part of the bourgeoisie, then what was he, as he was certainly not an ordinary peasant or factory worker.
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Old August 24th, 2017, 07:52 AM   #17
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His father, Ilya Nikolaevich, was inspector of public schools in Simbirsk. He eventually gained the civilian position of State Councilor, equating to the military rank of major general, and had the right to be a hereditary noble. Lenin went to university, something that the ordinary peasant guy never did, never even dreamed of. If Lenin was not part of the bourgeoisie, then what was he, as he was certainly not an ordinary peasant or factory worker.
His father worked for the government and had high rank. He belonged to middle class but he wasn't a bourgeois. He was part of Intelegentsia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligentsia
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Old August 24th, 2017, 08:24 AM   #18

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His father worked for the government and had high rank. He belonged to middle class but he wasn't a bourgeois. He was part of Intelegentsia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligentsia
Well, in more modern terms you have blue collar workers, white collar workers and, in some countries, aristocrats. The bourgeoisie are the white collar workers. From which strata of society does the intelligentsia come from? Even today it is primarily from the middle classes, and in Lenin's time it was only from the middle classes, the bourgeoisie.
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Old August 24th, 2017, 09:14 AM   #19
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Well, in more modern terms you have blue collar workers, white collar workers and, in some countries, aristocrats. The bourgeoisie are the white collar workers. From which strata of society does the intelligentsia come from? Even today it is primarily from the middle classes, and in Lenin's time it was only from the middle classes, the bourgeoisie.
Intelegentsia was mainly formed by Raznochintsy, "people of miscellaneous ranks" in 19th century persons of non-noble origin who due to their education were excluded from the taxable status.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raznochintsy
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Old August 24th, 2017, 09:24 AM   #20
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Well, in more modern terms you have blue collar workers, white collar workers and, in some countries, aristocrats. The bourgeoisie are the white collar workers. From which strata of society does the intelligentsia come from? Even today it is primarily from the middle classes, and in Lenin's time it was only from the middle classes, the bourgeoisie.
I am not denying that Lenin belonged to the middle class. But he didn't have any means of production so there was no contradiction between his status and his doctrine to nationalize all properties of bourgeoise. He had nothing to lose just like any worker or peasant
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