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Old August 24th, 2017, 11:16 AM   #21

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Lenin was neither bourgeoisie, nor middle class, he was a noble. But it doesn't change the fact that workers and peasants are rarely professional revolutionary. For that thing they ought to be well educated. In class society the good education was possible only for ruling classes - nobles and bourgeoisie.
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Old August 24th, 2017, 11:20 AM   #22

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Oh, but the difference between Lenin and a peasant and a worker is that Lenin did not work, and had idle time to plot revolution and to travel around Europe. What peasant or worker could do that, not one. This is not to say that societies should not have people who can be free to think, but if they plot revolution and simply replace the Tsar with themselves, they are frauds when they speak of workers, as they do not know the meaning of the word. Lenin and then Stalin holding power in Kremlin is straight from Animal Farm, irrespective of impressive tractor production and eventually Korolev.

But then all revolutions where the "peasants" replace the lords and become lords themselves is from Animal Farm.The real peasants just continue working, they have no choice, no say in their fate, as it always was.

Last edited by Corvidius; August 24th, 2017 at 11:27 AM.
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Old August 24th, 2017, 08:47 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Corvidius View Post
@GerDar
Oh, but the difference between Lenin and a peasant and a worker is that Lenin did not work, and had idle time to plot revolution and to travel around Europe. What peasant or worker could do that, not one. This is not to say that societies should not have people who can be free to think, but if they plot revolution and simply replace the Tsar with themselves, they are frauds when they speak of workers, as they do not know the meaning of the word. Lenin and then Stalin holding power in Kremlin is straight from Animal Farm, irrespective of impressive tractor production and eventually Korolev.

But then all revolutions where the "peasants" replace the lords and become lords themselves is from Animal Farm.The real peasants just continue working, they have no choice, no say in their fate, as it always was.
Totaly agree with the first sentence. Yet, bolsheviks as the Russian Social Democratic Workers' Party members always said that the real driving revolutionary force is workers living in cities. Because peasants are too inertial and afraid to lose little lands they have. It is also a fact that begining from 80's of XIX the workers were very active and every industrial enterprise had a revolutionary coterie which united real workers.
The analogy with Animal Farm isn't realy applicable here. The education available for everyone and officially privileged status of workers and peasants made social elevators working very well from the very bottom to the very top. I am not saying that live of peasants was much better than in imperial times. For my dad's and mom's families it was much worse. But after the revolution their children got a real chance to become engineers, scientists, politicians. And they did.

Last edited by GerDar; August 24th, 2017 at 08:57 PM.
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Old September 6th, 2017, 12:09 PM   #24

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Originally Posted by Iwan View Post
Lenin was neither bourgeoisie, nor middle class, he was a noble. But it doesn't change the fact that workers and peasants are rarely professional revolutionary. For that thing they ought to be well educated. In class society the good education was possible only for ruling classes - nobles and bourgeoisie.
Thanks Iwan. Wouldn't have thought that Lenin was noble.
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